Never let it be said on this podcast that we shy away from the big questions! I loved this conversation so much, it was one of those conversations that really opens up some expansive thinking and some new ways of looking at what might be possible.

My guests are Lisa Witter, co-founder and board member of Apolitical, and CEO and co-founder of the Apolitical Foundation, and Graça Fonseca, former Portugese Minister for Culture and much more besides. My hope is that after listening to this conversation, you will be able to look at the deeply unloveable situation with many of our political leaders in 2023 and be able to say, with great confidence, "it doesn't have to be like this".

I'd love to know what this conversation brings up for you, and thanks as always for listening, and for your support of this podcast.