The pandemic was supposed to prove the value of public health institutions like the CDC; instead, it exposed their inability to deal with a serious pandemic without serious errors. Tyler Cowen, a professor of economics at George Mason University, worries that these failures have a deeper cause: as the citizens of countries like the United States come to trust each other less and less, they are increasingly incapable of meeting the big challenges that await them.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Tyler Cowen talk about populism, the failure of state institutions during the pandemic, and the value of economic growth.

A written transcript of this conversation is available on persuasion.community

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