Talking to John P. McCormick about Machiavelli

In this episode of Unpopular Front’s author series, I spoke to John P. McCormick, Karl J. Weintraub Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago. John is the author of several books, including Carl Schmitt’s Critique of Liberalism: Against Politics as Technology, Machiavellian Democracy, and, most recently, The People’s Princes: Machiavelli, Leadership, and Liberty.

The popular image of Niccolò Machiavelli is a “teacher of evil,” who counsels rulers how to use force and fraud to consolidate their regimes, but John’s illuminating books present us with a much different picture. In them, Machiavelli is a radical democrat, interested in encouraging popular participation in politics and fostering republican institutions that will protect the common people’s liberties from rapacious elites. Unlike his classical forebears, Machiavelli does not differentiate between oligarchs and aristocrats; for him, “Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty; power is ever stealing from the many to the few,” as the old saw goes. And, although Machiavelli lived in 16th-century Florence, a very different society from our own, I think you’ll find his political theory relevant to the present day. As John writes in Machiavellian Democracy:

Every polity, Machiavelli observes, is comprised of two diverse humors: the oppressive appetite motivating the grandi, who wish to command and dominate the people; and the appetite to resist or avoid domination characteristic of the popolo, who desire only not to be commanded or oppressed by the grandi.

As a kind of companion piece to our discussion, I recommend checking out a New York Times op-ed from yesterday by Anand Giridharadas, “How the Elite Behave When No One Is Watching: Inside the Epstein Emails.” You’ll quickly see how Machiavelli can still help us clearly understand class and conspiracy in the 21st century.

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