KOL244 | “YOUR WELCOME” with Michael Malice Ep. 001: Intellectual Property, Prostate Cancer

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 244. From my recent appearance on the first episode of rising libertarian and media star Michael Malice's "Your Welcome" show on his new network, GaS Digital (consider subscribing--libertarian Dave Smith also has a great show on the network--I just did). I was in New York for the weekend, he was rebooting his show on a new network, so it was kismet. We discussed the basic case against intellectual property (I had to persuade Malice, an anarcho-capitalist who came into this without a lot of settled views on it), the Hoppe "toy helicopter" incident [e.g., 1, 2, 3], the infamous Robert Wenzel "debate," and a few other issues, like my recent bout with prostate cancer (yeah, he got me to go there). (Recorded May 26, 2018) Grok's shownotes: Two-Paragraph Summary for Show Notes with Time Markers 0:02 - 35:16: In this engaging episode of "Your Welcome" with Michael Malice, guest Stephan Kinsella, a prominent libertarian and patent attorney, dives into the contentious topic of intellectual property (IP) abolition. Kinsella argues that IP laws, including patents, copyrights, trademarks, and trade secrets, create artificial scarcity and hinder innovation by restricting the free use of ideas, which are non-scarce resources (2:01 - 3:25). Using examples like Malice’s own book-writing experience, Kinsella challenges the notion that IP incentivizes creativity, suggesting that market competition and alternative models like crowdfunding could sustain creators without legal monopolies (3:32 - 8:46). He critiques the historical roots of IP, such as the Statute of Monopolies (9:40), and highlights empirical studies showing IP’s negligible or negative impact on innovation, particularly in pharmaceuticals (15:19 - 20:23). The discussion also touches on cultural distortions caused by IP, exemplified by convoluted comic book copyright battles like Captain Marvel’s (29:10 - 31:45). 35:16 - 1:05:20: The conversation shifts to practical implications and personal anecdotes. Kinsella envisions a publishing model driven by platforms like Kickstarter, reducing reliance on traditional publishing houses (37:25 - 39:19). He addresses real-world cases, such as Martin Shkreli’s drug price hike, to illustrate how government interventions, not market failures, exacerbate IP-related issues (42:12 - 44:53). The episode takes a humorous turn with a discussion of libertarian memes, particularly the “helicopter ride” meme tied to Hans-Hermann Hoppe, sparking online controversy (45:09 - 49:07). Finally, Kinsella shares a deeply personal story about his prostate cancer diagnosis and innovative laser treatment, offering insights into navigating health challenges and the role of patents in medical technology (50:00 - 1:04:07). The episode concludes with a reflection on the intersection of IP and medical innovation, underscoring Kinsella’s broader critique of government-granted monopolies (1:04:13 - 1:05:06). Grok summary and Youtube transcript below Update: for more on the Helicopter incident, see KOL462 | CouchStreams After Hours on Break the Cycle with Joshua Smith (2021): Hoppe's Michael Malice Helicopter Photo, Scooter Rides with Sammeroff, Mises Caucus Hopes, the Loser Brigade https://youtu.be/i0rvfJpPJ-4?si=UIrr3Yr_9MSy7cBL From the YouTube episode description: It's the first episode of "YOUR WELCOME"! Join Michael Malice as he speaks with American Intellectual Property Lawyer Stephan Kinsella on the current system of IP and how the implementation of its laws effect commerce, culture and society. From the drug industry to entertainment, the precedents set by those who govern over the laws of Intellectual Property help shape the foundation of culture as well as the economy. Listen as Michael Malice delves deep into the core of the issues and stories that effect our world today. "YOUR WELCOME". Follow the show @michaelmalice, @NSKinsella Original video available by subscription at GasDigital Excerpt: https://youtu.be/QV-LVhEhJCI More on the helicopter stuff:   Facebook post about the helicoptor. Even my buddy Tucker didn't like it! (we've made up, no worries)   If you think political violence is hilarious, and post pics with plastic helicopters to show it, you might examine your conscience. — Jeffrey A Tucker (@jeffreyatucker) October 8, 2017 Hoppe Helicopter Controversy of 2017 - Stephan Kinsella responds: https://youtu.be/rqipQNFSOEQ?si=skq0FFFwt5xSwhry&t=1 Grok Summary Bullet-Point Summary for Show Notes with Time Markers and Block Descriptions 0:00 - 15:00: Introduction and Core Argument Against Intellectual Property Description: The episode opens with Michael Malice introducing Stephan Kinsella, a libertarian patent attorney advocating for the abolition of intellectual property (IP). Kinsella presents his elevator pitch, arguing that IP laws create artificial scarcity for non-scarce resources like ideas, contrasting this with physical property rights that resolve conflicts over scarce resources. Malice challenges Kinsella with personal concerns about book piracy, leading to a discussion on the misconception that IP incentivizes creativity. Summary Points: 0:02 - 0:54: Malice introduces the show and Kinsella, highlighting his expertise in anti-IP philosophy. 1:24 - 2:01: Kinsella is introduced as an anarchist opposing IP, including patents, copyrights, trademarks, and trade secrets. 2:01 - 3:25: Kinsella’s elevator pitch: IP restricts property use, creating conflict by protecting non-scarce information. 3:32 - 4:07: Malice cites his book-writing effort, questioning how creators profit without IP; Kinsella notes digital copying already bypasses IP. 4:25 - 5:54: Kinsella debunks the “stealing” metaphor, arguing copying doesn’t deprive creators of their work, only potential profits. 6:19 - 8:46: Discussion shifts to incentives; Kinsella argues property rights serve justice, not incentives, and competition naturally drives innovation. 9:40 - 14:04: Historical context: IP stems from monopoly privileges like the 1623 Statute of Monopolies; Jefferson viewed patents as monopolies. 14:09 - 15:00: Malice notes IP’s correlation with Western innovation, but Kinsella counters that correlation doesn’t prove causation. 15:00 - 30:00: Empirical Evidence and Cultural Impacts of IP Description: Kinsella delves into empirical studies showing IP’s limited or negative impact on innovation, particularly in pharmaceuticals, where regulatory barriers like FDA processes inflate costs. The conversation explores how IP distorts culture, using comic book copyright battles as a case study. A humorous debate clip with Robert Wenzel highlights the philosophical divide over IP’s legitimacy. Summary Points: 15:19 - 17:06: Studies (e.g., by Fritz Machlup) show no clear link between patents and innovation; some suggest patents hinder small companies. 17:12 - 20:04: Pharmaceutical innovation persists without patents in some countries; FDA regulations, not competition, drive high costs. 20:16 - 22:17: Kinsella cites Boldrin and Levine’s book, debunking IP myths; patent trolls and trivial patents (e.g., iPhone curves) harm innovation. 22:23 - 24:29: Supreme Court case (Oil States) confirms patents as government privileges, not natural rights. 24:30 - 26:08: Wenzel debate clip: Wenzel claims his “formula” is scarce; Kinsella argues information isn’t scarce, sparking a heated exchange. 26:14 - 28:03: Kinsella defends creator profits in an IP-free world, using J.K. Rowling’s potential crowdfunding success as an example. 28:16 - 30:00: Comic book IP battles (e.g., Captain Marvel, Superboy) illustrate how copyright stifles creativity and competition. 30:00 - 45:00: Practical Models and Government Intervention Description: The discussion pivots to practical alternatives to IP, such as crowdfunding and branding, which allow creators to profit without legal monopolies. Kinsella critiques government interventions like FDA regulations and copyright extensions, using the Martin Shkreli case to highlight how monopolistic privileges distort markets. The segment also touches on cultural industries like fashion, which thrive without IP. Summary Points: 30:04 - 32:02: Copyright battles over Captain Marvel and Superboy show how IP creates legal complexities, limiting creative output. 32:15 - 34:04: Marvel’s licensing issues (e.g., Spider-Man, Inhumans) demonstrate IP’s restrictive impact on storytelling. 34:17 - 36:26: Kinsella estimates patents cost $1 trillion annually in lost innovation; copyright distorts culture and internet freedom. 36:32 - 39:19: Fashion and perfume industries thrive without IP; Kickstarter could replace traditional publishing, empowering authors. 39:24 - 41:19: Historical publishing monopolies (e.g., Statute of Anne) favored publishers, not authors; internet breaks this model. 42:12 - 44:53: Shkreli’s price hike reflects FDA-granted monopolies, not free-market failures; government interventions compound problems. 45:00 - 1:05:20: Memes, Personal Health, and Medical Patents Description: The episode concludes with a lighter discussion of libertarian memes, specifically the “helicopter ride” meme tied to Hans-Hermann Hoppe, which sparked online controversy. Kinsella then shares his prostate cancer diagnosis and treatment via an innovative laser procedure, raising questions about patents in medical technology. The conversation wraps up with reflections on balancing humor, health, and IP’s broader implications. Summary Points: 45:09 - 49:07: Malice and Kinsella discuss the “helicopter ride” meme, linked to Pinochet and Hoppe, and its humorous yet controversial reception. 50:00 - 55:05: Kinsella recounts his prostate cancer diagnosis via high PSA levels and biopsy,