In this episode of the *Leading Complexity* video podcast, hosts Tomas Björkholm and Michael Göthe dive into an insightful conversation with Kent Beck, a renowned figure in software development and the creator of eXtreme Programming. Kent shares his experiences and thoughts on leadership, complexity, and the four factors model, explaining how interdependencies, variation, states, and irreversibility shape our work environments. If you’re eager to learn how to navigate complexity in organizations and software development, this episode offers a deep dive into cutting-edge strategies and leadership insights from one of the field's great minds. Tune in to discover practical advice and thought-provoking ideas that will help you and your teams thrive in today’s fast-evolving world.