Episode #87 – Danny Iny On Tuning Into Feedback & Being An Audience Master To Grow A Successful Business

Hey, it’s John McIntyre here, the Autoresponder Guy. It’s time for episode 87 of the McMethod Marketing Podcast where you’ll discover how to get more customers, in less time, with less effort, with less money and plus you want to have make more money with them all, with those cool tactics and strategies.

Now, today I’ll be talking to Danny Iny. Danny Iny is from Fire Pole Marketing. He is the audience guy. He teaches, you know what we will teach is to build a products I think your final audience to sell it to. Danny does the other way around. He teaches you to go and get, go and get the audience and then get a product. Ok. I think that’s really, that is really a great way to do it. Because look, you know a great product, but there is no one to sell it to, no one is going to buy it, okay. Unless you have an audience first you have the list is a whole bunch ways to get that audience. Sneak and find out what they need, what problems they have and product they want to buy, which is a much easy strategy to perform. But it is a little bit of kind a intuitive, okay. So we are going to talk it to today about the short term versus long term thinking, that drives that thinking, that drives that strategy. To get the sure notes of this episode of the McMethod Marketing Podcast, go to www.themcmethod.com/87.

Okay, one more thing we got the McMasters inside of the week. This week is really cool, I love this one. Opportunistic, or the question is really do you want to be opportunistic or you want to focus down? Okay. Now one year ago I, you know- been in Bangkok for a conference, just come back to Thailand- so just, just back to Chiang Mai. I realized that I was focusing on like 4 or 5 different projects; 4 or 5 different you know separate businesses on Australia, trying to do this trying to do that. I heard about supplements and I heard that eCommerce and drop shipping and I want to do this email marketing thing. And I realized that I was just chasing the part of going at the end of the rainbow. I was, every time I heard a good idea, every time I heard a story from someone who is making money, I’d like ‘Oh that sounds great! I think I want to do that.’ But I won’t make any proper progress on any of them or maybe I make some small progress but you know- I go and say ‘I’ll do some Amazon stuff a little bit.’ Make some head way make some gains but then, I do like then the excitement would wear off and then I hear a better idea, a more exciting idea and then I jumped off into the next thing. And one thing that really changes my business and specially improved it was that realizing that some sort of opportunistic thinking is cancer to success, okay. Let me say that again. Opportunistic thinking like jumping from opportunity to opportunity is cancer to a business, ok. In other words, if you are trying to get somewhere with business, and this could be you know- this applies if you are a freelancer and you are just getting started. This applies then maybe you are getting a lot of money. Because you can be opportunistic in terms of multiple businesses or you could just be opportunistic and multiple projects within the business. Maybe you try to focus on 5 or 10 different areas when you should really focus on 1 or 2.

And one thing that changed me in, and really change the way I do businesses and improved things is just focusing down. I mean this is part of like the Auto-responder kind of guy thing. This is you know combining all the products that I have into a community called McMasters this is just simplifying things. So I can focus and deliver a huge amount of impact into 1 or 2 key areas. And it makes it much easier to make an impact, okay.

So the suggestion today if you are listening to this is if you are stopping opportunistic whether you are at the beginning of the journey, whether you are in the business, stop focusing on 5 things, 10 things. Figure out a couple of things that are extremely high impact, extremely high leverage and go explore like a freaking bomb in those areas. Okay, that is what you wanted to.

If you want more insights like this, you need to join McMasters. McMasters, it is a private meeting community which is rare, really about how to build your business how to grow it. It started being about email marketing so how to write and auto responder all that’s in there. But, what I have realized is that, the easy to people who join is- I mean like Danny Iny, it’s about the audience. It is not just about the auto responder, it’s really you know–if you join you don’t want just and auto responder. You want a sales founder you want an automated marketing system that runs 24/7 to convert your prospects and leads into paying customers and that also cranks the value of those customers up. So that McMaster is all about there’s forum, webinars, there’s training part a bunch of stuffs in there. If you want to learn more about it go to www.themcmethod.com/mcmasters. Cool! Let us get into it that’s a finale, let’s get to the interview with Mr. Danny Iny.

It’s John McIntyre the Autoresponder guy I’m here with Danny Iny from www.firepolemarketing.com. Now Danny is known as the Freddy Krueger of blogging. He is the founder of Fire Pole Marketing. He’s got a couple of bestselling books, engagement from scratch in credit of the audience Business Master Class Training Program. So, today I thought they get him on. Someone mentioned recently and emailed it to me and after a lot of getting in the show and talked about what he is known for, which is really how to build an audience first. So, you might have a product, so you might want to create a product but instead of going down that road, you know what Danny suggest what he teaches is to go down the road of booting an audience first. But, to go into it beyond just booting a twitter, you know a Twitter falling or Facebook page it is much more-deeper than that. That’s what we are going to talk about today.

So, we are getting into Danny in just a minute. Danny how are you doing today?

Danny Iny: I am great! I’m really excited to be on the phone to you!

John McIntyre: Good to have you here man. And you’re in the middle of a launch we are just chatting. You are like a neck tape in the middle of-whole bunch of webinars and emails going out and it seems like busy over there.

Danny Iny: Yeah we- we usually in the middle of one launch or another. We keep things pretty busy around here, but yeah it has been a hectic and exciting last five weeks or so for us.

John McIntyre: Nice. Nice. Ok. Before you get into some of the audience booting stuff, the strategy and the philosophy and the tactics can you give- I have been given of a list in a sort of a very quick background of you. Can you give the list in a bit more of an overview of who you are and what you do?

Danny Iny: Sure! So, I run a company called Fire Pole Marketing. And we teach-you know we started out very much like a lot of online marketing, blog sites you know organizations and etcetera. It’s teaching marketing through blog, through online contacts. How to general kinda training course? And like most online entrepreneurs we weren’t merely smart as we thought we were. So, we got into this like I really knew exactly what I thought what people needed. So I created the course like how am I going to get the word out, how make it a sound. And in the process of looking for, you know all the different ways to get the word out of what I’m doing. I stumbled on to guest posting and I got a post published on Copy Blogger, I got another one published on Pro Blogger. I thought I was getting some good exposure a good traction, so I totally threw myself into it. The first year this was 2011, I wrote over 80 guest posts from major blogs. People starts noticing me on all this different major blogs and start leaving comments saying: “Wow Danny wherever I turned you’re there it’s like you’re Freddy Krueger.” And that’s how I became the Freddy Krueger on blogging. The name stuck. Very, very ironically I’ve never in my life seen a Freddy Krueger movie but the name stuck. In doing this a lot of people kinda discover my work and then audience started to form. And because of my notch like, this didn’t start out as a strategy- you know success is always in high it seems premeditated. (Laughs)

But, just a personal like personality cork of mine is, I’m kind a very mildly obsessive of compulsive. I don’t have to be diagnosed but enough that my desk is usually clean and organized papers are always right angles like that kind of stuff. So when someone emails me, I respond quickly because it’s a ‘to do’ I want to get it done I want to get it out of my inbox. And I kinda developed a reputation for being very responsive by email. Like anyone of my audience would email me, I respond always within 24 hours. And this big relationship started to develop between me and the audience. And through all this conversation I started to learn a lot about, what people wanted, what questions they were asking, what their real needs were.

And I found first of all that, you know the big training product I built once upon a time. This massive overview course about how to do marketing, which is a great course for what it is, never sold well because it was not people were asking for. But through all these conversations, through all this interactions I learned what people actually did want. I kinda stumbled on to and paid attention and learned along the way as I went. I stumbled on to this audience first philosophy and strategy and approach,  that we have applied now with personal growth of our business. We went from starting at zero on January of 2011, now we are doing about a million and half dollars a year and growing pretty faster, 15 people on my team. So, I was grown pretty quickly and we applied this to the development and launch of what will soon be three (3) blockbuster training program. So the first was Write Like Freddy, a program about blog writing, that was very much created in response to tons of people emailing me asking “how do you write so much?’ How do you get on all-these major blogs?” and these people were asking me for it. Clearly there is a demand and so I created it.

Then the Audience Business Master Class, very much of how to do, of what we have done in building this business driven by an audience. People ask the questions that indicated there was demand then I actually created it. This new product that we are going to be launching in January the question build there is the builder is really how really to build a training program that people will love and appreciate and get value from and want to buy and consume, based on indicated demand on the market. So basically, taking what we have done successfully and teaching other people how to do the same will done this in a lot of different niches market industries etc. All about connecting with an audience, engaging an audience, listening to what they tell you and letting that be your North Star in building and planning a business.

John McIntyre: Right. Right, Ok. I love that this is popping up a lot. Like I’ve seen with a- like Dane Maxwell the Foundation and you’ve got some of the start up community like the lean start up where this is big focus like right now entrepreneurship especially online but I think just in general, is that everyone is catching on to this idea that there’s really never been a better time to start a business. What that means is that a lot of people get on the game thinking ‘well I’ll just get the product first and go find some people to sell it to.’ And what that’s leading to is obviously that’s, those people got the picture the wrong way around, the strategy the wrong way around. So then out of that needs out of the people created that don’t really know the process has come to this market for stuff like what you’re teaching, where it’s not about the product. It’s not about really whether to PDF an eBook or videos or anything like that. Everything starts with understanding who the prospect is, who the audience is what problem they have and then creating something that fits them, like a glove. Because like you said you got a program that is a great cause it’s fully very helpful but because that’s not what people are looking for it doesn’t sell off.

Danny Iny: Uh-hmm. That’s absolutely right. Underlying all of that because you got to actually gather from the audience from the market what is it that they want, because I see only what they want and what you think they need are often very different thing. But underlying that is you need to have a strong relationship with the audience because otherwise they are not going to tell you.

John McIntyre: Right. So is this something you, is this something you do from like you teach through it like to start, before they even starting business to go to the audience and say start blogging, guest posting or podcasting like this and then to start serving the audience and finding out what products they need or what products you can create? Or is this something as a strategy, is this something you teach who already in business or is both?

Danny Iny: It is both. So we work from people where they are. So there is the kind of best case scenario and then there is how you usually play that. The best case scenario is that someone comes to us right at the beginning. They are like “I think I want to start on my business, but I’m not sure how and I want to learn how to do it.”  And probably about half of the student’s that we are or at least quite close to half of the students we’re working found that category. And we were acquainted from day one from ground zero and build something amazing and successful together, which is just great. But a lot of people went off the very first thing that they’ve ever seen in the world of online marketing. They’ve had their idea, they’re natural process of entrepreneurship, you do have an idea and you go out and you do it then you start learning more. Entrepreneurs tend to learn as you go kind of people. So often we meet and connect with entrepreneurs who are further along, they’ve built a website or blog or business. And its kind a stalled it’s not getting the results they want, I’m not sure why. Then we teach them how to work through our process to fix things from the ground up and go from there. So, I’d really want to start out and get everything the first time but, you know you work from where you are. We got to play the cards that we’re dealt.

John McIntyre: Right. Ok. So, what’s I’m curious like what because I made this mistake before in the past just kind a going getting product and trying to sell it. And what I’ve noticed, actually I’ve been doing some advertising campaigns on Facebook for this thing, one thing that surprised me and it make so much sense to me now but during the testing and –you know basic teachings on different parts, different office it’s interesting to see that you can change the headline, change the video, and change the price and the delivery of the part and all the different things like that but, the problem is if you are not selling something that people want to buy it’s not going to sell. I mean it’s not going to sell that well. You could have great copy, you know a great copyrighter a fantastic video sales letter and the whole thing, the whole ‘she bang’, but if you are not selling thing that people want they just not going to buy. And how that played out for me was I noticed that, I’ve got a how to information training program that teach how to write emails and how to email the list and how to write a auto response and how to make sales and all of that and that’s great some people do wanted to do that, but then a larger part of the audience just wants a template. They can fill in the blanks and templates are not as good as email is written by then, but it requires your method. Go in fill the blanks upload the thing.

So now I noticed by selling templates, and I’ve seen this recently with the launch of Ryan Diaz has been doing with the machine they were really stressing this angle of templates. And to me that was a classic example of seeing, you know you’ve got, in the grand scheme of things these people would be better off if they’ve learn how to write their own emails but the facts of the matter is they’ll rather just fill out a templates. So that’s what they are going to buy more of. So it’s interesting. You start to kind a think more like a, this is a difference in thinking like an entrepreneur and thinking like I guess a product creator. Because an entrepreneur says what do people want to buy and it goes and creates stuff.

Danny Iny: And honestly it’s very difficult like it requires a lot of humility, which is something that, you know I don’t always excel at (Laughs) to really kind of shut up and put aside your preconceptions and listen without kind of applying that extra layer of your knowledge and expertise to filter through what people are saying to. You know ‘Oh this means they really need this.’ I know they are struggling with A and B and C even if they knew how to write emails properly and that wouldn’t be an issue. So that’s what they need for it. It’s very, very hard for us to step away from that.

John McIntyre: What sort of mistakes you see people making when they’re getting started? What I see the big grand mistake is thinking about the product before they go and talk to the audience. What, you know when you’re training, when you’re working with someone or when you look at someone that people using your products what are some of the mistakes that people make with the strategy?

Danny Iny: Well, what you going to think about not just what mistakes they make but why do they make mistakes. A great example, a great way to illustrate this is, I attended to that behavioural design class about 6 months ago or something, it’s basically how you create the behaviours you want in your life. So they gave the example of let say you want to get up early, you wanted to start your days earlier. And what a lot of people say, ‘Well I get up too late I need to find different ways of waking myself up in the morning so maybe I need a better alarm clock and better system for how to get myself out of bed etc.’ But really if you want to get up early in the morning you got to go to bed early at night. And to go to bed earlier at night you got to start your evening routine earlier so probably got to have dinner earlier. So to have dinner earlier you got to kind of clock out of work a little bit earlier to head home. (Laughs) And that’s really where that it actually starts. So, if you look at what kind is problem like the symptom then it’s very hard to solve. You got to look at the root cause.

John McIntyre: Okay, I like that.

Danny Iny: So in the case of kind of people a trying to get their online businesses going, the mistake people make is that they rush to clear the product. They rush to clear the product, they just want to put it out there trying to sell it but if you look back to why do people make those mistake it usually comes down to the fact that they don’t have and audience. They don’t have that group of people who can give them input into what they want or need and the reason for that is the people don’t plan a proper runway in terms of building and launching their business.  And the classic example of this is it is in the restaurant in industry all the time, not that I work for all the restaurants, I just, you know you see them out there. A lot of restaurants start up and then they go out of business within 3-6 months. The reasons for that, is that they did their planning, they created their business plan they figured out what it’s going to cost to operate their business, how much money are they going to make with the certain number of customers in the door and etc., so they raise all their money to buy the franchise license and do the renovations and buy their equipment all that stuff, but they don’t account for the fact that they are not going be working at full time capacity from day 1. It’s probably going to take 6-12 months. So you don’t have the financial runway to build up to the results they want.

A lot of people start on online business at a point where they kind a thinking, ‘okay you know I am desperate I quit my job I don’t have any savings from the bank. I’ve got to make rent next month. What can I do online that’s going to make money today?’ And the reality is that, there are exemptions there are way that you can get lucky and certainly you know if you are very experienced on other space there are things you can do, but they are in their heart the reality is that when building something successful does take time. We tell our students in our Master Class, ‘look in a building a business is generating a comfortable revenue, a comfortable income your looking probably a year, and we guarantee to students in our Audience Master Class, that if they put in a time which is ten to twenty hours a week, they do the work they recharge to us when they need help, we guarantee they will be earning at least $3,000 to $6,000 per month, consistently, sustainably and growing by the end of the first year. And if not we will be giving their money back, we even give them an extra thousand dollars out of my pocket. That’s how much, how confident I am that they can get their results. But it could or may take most of the year to get there. So, if you are in kind of a point where you are thinking, ‘How am I going to pay next month’s rent?’ We tell them explicitly this is not it.

And in the time frame of building and launching a business that is not such a long time but if you go into it saying; ‘what can I do, that will make me money tomorrow?’ You’re kind of saying to yourself up to fail cause you don’t have time to connect with an audience and engage with them and learn what they want to build relationships. You can’t gather that real insight into what it is that the people want and need on how you can help them. And so you can’t do any of that. That’s why you jump straight to, you know ‘I’ve got to launch a product.’ So the mistake of people who jump straight to you know ‘I want to launch a product’ instead of want to build an audience and learn what they need. But the reason for that is that people kind a make their plans at a point where they’re like ‘okay I’m done I can’t take another minute in this day job, I’m not going to save any money. I’m just going to make money tomorrow, going to make money yesterday.’ And you can build huge success and great sustainable freedom online. I don’t know if that’s necessarily the best but the easiest place to make money really, really fast.

John McIntyre: This is one of those things that for me it’s taking a while to get drilled in to me. I supposed this it’s really this year when I started to think more lonesome. But at least initially that’s where, that’s a lot of time where the hype comes right from me. You got the books like the four work week and see if this is some sort of spamy internet marketing stuff you see out there that promises to make like $3,000 a day or the next few weeks or something. And so it got to gets people you know their eyes glowing. Thinking that they going to be rich in a very, very short period of time. But the problem is I mean it’s not the, like once you get going once you have a good business and you can scale you can you know you can make money very quickly but if you’re starting, you’ve got no experience in business you don’t have any capital at all you don’t have any, I mean that’s my name no capital and no experience it’s going to take time. And especially like that first $100 online and then that first $1,000 online that’s going to be the hottest money you’ve ever you know worked on. Once you get to that it get a bit easier and thinking you know the first hundred thousand dollars you’re earning is probably, you know it’s easy and the first million dollars and so on and so forth.

Danny Iny: Uh-hmm. Absolutely and if you think about it if you look at the history of kind of the “online marketing” quote and quote industry it’s really more of a cottage industry but you know our industry as we call it’s a very young industry, right where you’re getting 10 or 15 years old not much more than that. And because whenever you have a new industry right, you’re going to get a gold rush. With actually the gold rush you know back in the states however long ago like lots of people just going to rushed in cuz ‘Oh my God big opportunity.’ We fight with the online world we fight with the AppStore, we fight with Kindle. Whenever you got space you’re gonna have a gold rush because it’s new and the first people in are like it very well because they have enormous share of voice because there’s hardly anyone else’s there. It’s very unregulated relatively speaking it’s the wild west, you know you can there are times of loop holes on Google that you can exploit and so forth. And so that kind of environment will usually attract first it will attract smarts opportunistic entrepreneurs. Which also going to attract a lot of people who happen to be in the right place in the right time and it catches their eye and you know they make quick dollar and they’re like ‘Hey I can do all this why not sell it to other people too.’ You know it’s always easier to sell shovels than to dig for gold. (Laughs) and that’s what a lot of people do. And they sell this to dream of you know ‘Yay! You can make money in your sleep in your pyjamas from, you know your tropical island (laughs) and there’s much, which by the way which is total baloney cuz those places never had good Wi-Fi (laughs).

John McIntyre: I lived in Thailand there’s Wi-Fi in some of the islands there.

Danny Iny: (Laughs) so it’s just a set of unrealistic expectations and most of those things you can make money that way but that is not a business. Like taking advantage on some loop hole on Google to do arbitrage to, you know run traffic to this thing and then get, you know revenue from adds until the loop hole closes? That’s not a business it’s a scheme and it may make money for a little while until the loophole closes. But there’s nothing sustainable there and there’s a real, you see a lot of people who kind to rise to stardom they launch their like product. Teaching their instant magic formula for getting rich then the loophole closes then they disappear and they’re gone. And it’s not a real business as oppose to people who are working at for a long time so on the same stuff, for year after year because it’s good and it’s solid and it works. And building out a real business they do, you know it’s not one guy with 2 virtual assistants you gonna be doing high 6 figure it is kind a holding the business together with duct tape. It’s a real business with real people real system etc. It’s kind a young industry like give it another 5-10 years  the industry got to grow up.

John McIntyre: Well, you know business got to see if that happens and I think there will always be this people. Just get online like you go and register to main for 10 bucks and you’re in business in the sense. But this is partly like, you know me initially, when I was back in Sydney I’m from Sydney Australia so I’m there I’ve got a job working in s call center, I’m sitting there thinking ‘well you know.. you’ll be great’ I can just make say 400 bucks a month or maybe a 1000 bucks I could quit my job and I just do nothing or then I could just work. But at least initially often unless you know I find for me like, unless you it’s who you meet successful people who are making a lot of money you see how normal they are. They are not crazy. They are not as you know specially gifted or anything just normal people and often I find some of them not even that smart. It’s a lot of intelligent people don’t make much money and vice versa. But for me I found until I started to meet people who were far more successful than I was, it’s very hard to imagine myself in that position.

So making a thousand dollars a month online with some, you know loophole on Google add worlds, that sound like a great you know a great opportunity because you know this is sort of limiting belief that I know I can really be it. This is kind a conscious thing but there is this limiting thing where like ‘ah I’m not really a business guy, I can’t have a big business’ but I find what’s happening with me and I’m seeing this happening with friends who, you know watching their businesses grow as well as you hit these goals and you knocked them down and you start making more money you gradually start thinking bigger and bigger especially when you start spending time with people who are far more successful than you are.

So, I find this topic fascinating thing cuz this is like if you could unlock this barrier like the tactics as far as how to achieve and build the audience, when and how to build a product and how to actually make a money in it, that comes relatively easy once you get rid of that mental baggage that stops you from really thinking big and thinking long time.

Danny Iny: Uh-hmm. And that kind of relative thing of reference it really, it does a number on your two levels, right? The first is that when you’re just getting started we all do a kind of mental discounting. You know you see the big expert of your looking up to and he’s making I don’t know $50,000 a month in revenue, let’s say. And we all do a mental discounting where we look at the leader in our industry and say,’ wow I mean you know they are amazing, they’re so smart. You know I don’t think I’m like that but if I can do just 10% of that then I’m still doing well’, right? So we take that and we kind a look at just 10%. The problem is that business model is totally working on a different scale. You can’t take what they’re doing and reduce it to 10% and expect it to be necessarily still be the same of all, like that is an always work. The other challenge is that we also look at kind of the leaders in our industry and you have to set our expectation we that same kind of mental discounting in terms of what is possible in general.

So look at the internet marketing “space” there are a handful of players like literally count them of on your fingers. A handful of players who are doing, you know between probably 10 or 20 million a year. They’re the biggest players in the industry. And it’s even border line whether you can save that they’re really doing that because they’re really running like 18 different businesses and 18 different niches. So it’s not really that they’ve got a business doing, you know 15-20 million a year. But let’s stay there, biggest players in our industry 15-20 million a year. And so we all do that mental discounting we’re like, well when I get from 1 or 2 million I’m doing amazing, right? But then step outside to our little cottage industry, you know if you go to a venture capitalist, you tell you them the biggest in this industry I want to go into is 20 million a year. They’ll laugh at you saying ‘What are you talking about?’ You know if the biggest player in an industry isn’t doing at least a billion dollars I’m not interested. Alright there is no opportunity there.

And so it’s really important to kind a pull your mind out of being so entrench in this little cottage industry. This little bubble they cut off your sense of what is really possible. And I’m not saying that everyone has to aspire to run a billion dollar company, right? Someone told me once it was very, very wise that success looks different to different people. For some people, it’s a laptop on the beach. For other people it’s a glass castle. And both are difficult to build and the real tragedy is if you build the one that you don’t even want, that would just really suck. So I’m fine with someone that says ‘You know what I want to be making 6-figures working 10 hours a week enjoying my freedom.’ I have friends who do that and I think that’s great. What I do have a big problem with is people setting an artificially low ceiling on what is possible for them to conceive of. Just because of the frame of reference they have chosen for themselves.

John McIntyre: Yeah. It’s funny that you mentioned the billionaire thing. Because in the last few months I’ve spoken on few different people and one of them we’re talking one of the top click bank product, and some of these guys are often are very affiliate driven. Some of them say ‘yeah you’re doing twenty million dollar in sales, 50% of that would go to the affiliates may have another 20% goes to JV manager and then you’ve got a little bit left over to pay the people on the team’, often it is a small team. So they might be bringing in there from 20 to 50 thousand dollars a month each if it’s a couple of founders to something like that. But you know I’m on the days when, you know I may look at one of those guys and get ‘wow 10 million dollars a year that’s like hot! That’s like a million dollars a month, that’s insane. Imagine what you can do with a million dollars a month.’ (uh-hmm) But you know I was reasoning it was a few months ago I may be hearing those like ‘men that’s not, you know you could do a 20 million dollar business and you might be bringing in as far as income goes 20-50 thousand on those month. That’s a lot of money but it’s not a try-try for what it seems like you’re doing a 10 or a 20 million dollar a year.

So I’m reading a book now called All The Money In The World it’s by, I think it’s by, it’s by the Forbes 400 an author who’s affiliate with him somehow and it’s about the 400 Riches Guy in the World and Women guys and girl. And what’s fascinating is just the scale that this guys plan and think out that makes at, it’s exactly like you’re saying, makes you, you know when I go back and look and read that book and then go look at internet marketing industry you see this is so, so, so, so, so small. And if you want to actually play big like proper big do you know that marketing industries not the industry to be in. It’s a great industry to get in; you know if you live in the beach and you can build a decent, you know a decent size of business. But if you want to stop playing out like a hundred million dollar level and up, you gonna need to be in a bigger market.

Danny Iny: Absolutely! And it’s not the marketing space the-the online business, first of all its gonna grow, I mean it’s gonna grow still very early days but it’s a great sand box. It’s a great place to learn how to do things and how business works. It does make you really sharp but at some point, you know if you’re really looking to build something big yeah you got to grow up and get out of the sand box.

John McIntyre: I like the way of looking at it. It’s a, it’s a part of yeah I just came back from the states and see marketing conference there. And coming back I am everything you said where I wanted to be, you know 6 months, for a year or 2 years, 5 years that sort of thing, and the sort of the summary- or the vision that I sort of figure that so far is that do what it to come business in to it, it’s a pretty decent size business, and then use that stick big as wings. Instead of going and building like a nice-a nice internet marketing businesses like a membership site for example and then saying ‘Oh this business works let’s go just make another one of these. Let’s copy this business’, which I’ve seen a lot of people do, it’s not going ‘well no let’s use this as a platform’. So then go how could you stop playing in a business which is in a like hundred million dollar potential. And maybe you take a few swings. Maybe the first one you never make any money the second one maybe you’ll only hit 10. You’ll like ‘that was a hundred million’ but just the mere fact that you’re playing in a different ball game playing in a bigger field which it’s-it’s probably not gonna be the internet marketing. You push your skills day, you got that platform that the cash flow that the cash in the bank all that sort of stuff and then you take this biggest swings in bigger markets. To me that’s what, that’s what getting me fired up right now thinking about that.

Danny Iny: Yeah I’m looking forward to continuing this conversation because I’m very much on the same- kinda the same space. And the really cool thing is that you know its kind a circling back to where we started this conversation, right? I mean this audience first methodology that we teach, that we’ve used to launch multiple you know blockbuster super successful products in the online marketing space. We’re actually using the same process the same methodology right now to develop and launch a software product that is intended-like it’s useful and relevant to people in our space in our industry – you know which is you just look as we can reach a lot of them.

They have a much-much broader appeal. Let’s just break way beyond the barriers of this little bublle of the market that we are in. And I don’t know if that’s gonna be a huge block buster success. I mean whenever you take on a big projects in business, if there is a risk involve you know -I’m not taking onto that big enough project so it may not work out. But the cool thing is if this methodology that you learn to apply at the scale they usually do scale they do work on different scale and that’s where it gets really exciting.

John McIntyre: One thing is really dawned to me reason is talking to- we’ll wrap up in a second a bit- I was chatting to a friend here in a Chang Mai Thailand and he’s-you know he’s a very successful guy and one thing what we’ve been chatting about is- neither in marketing world it’s like if you want to make more money get better split-split testing. You know, buy more traffic get your conversions high, hire a better copyright and get better video cells that roll that stuff. But the- you know if you look the thing running like 18-20 perspective look it like one of the one of two things neither one thing that makes the biggest difference in everything you do and in business it’s gonna be the market that you’re in. It’s not the split-testing in the headline or the copyright you hire or any of that stuff or event the offer. It’s the audience that go and trying to help.

Danny Iny: Yeah if you want to make more money make something that more people want.

John McIntyre: Cool man. Well I think we need to wrap it up here but before we go if-if the listeners want to learn more about you this has been a little loopy sort or wan that way through a whole bunch of topics in, but if they want to learn about you or what we talked about here especially audience building stuff where is the best place for them to go?

Danny Iny: Sure, sometimes a loopy conversation is the most interesting way so (laughs). If anyone listening to this and wants to learn more about me and my work Fire Pole Marketing and the stuff that we do around audience building an engagements, if you go to www.firepolemarketing.com— that’s ‘fire f-i-r-e, pole is p-o-l-e so like you’re sliding down a pole in a fire station not you’re standing at the street corner asking questions, marketing.com– we have a tone like a huge metric ton of free amazing content on the site. There’s like 700 articles which are rich in depths and super valuable. We’ve got my book engagements from scratch from Amazon. It’s was a bestseller on Amazon for 2 years straight. So it’s not like one of those PR stands, where shouts at the top of the charts and drop back down. It was up there for 2 years straight it’s got over 200 very-very positive reviews so we give it away for free on the website. You can just go there up and then get it. There is a ton of great stuff there so go check it out. And if anyone listening to this has any questions, I still am a little bit obsessive compulsive about answering my email.

So anyone who emails me my personal email is danny@firepolemarketing.com. If you have a question of anything we talked about if there is anything I can help you with I will either respond to you in 24-hours or it is someone on my team who is just better equip to help you I will send you to them and they will get back to you in 24 hour but either way you’ll hear back and you’ll be hear back quickly. So if I can help anyone I’m happy to. Thanks for having me on the show this is a lot of fun.

John McIntyre: This is good man I’ll have links to your sign of the show now it’s the www.themcmethod.com