S5E38 Orson Hyde and the Prophecy of the Civil War Part 2

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Sep 11, 2025

The discussion revolves around Orson Hyde's pivotal letter, shedding light on Utah's quest for statehood amid a fractured Union. Analyzing the historical context, the hosts dive into the spiritual lessons of unanswered prayers and the hope for Zion's redemption. A listener's personal experiences enrich the dialogue, blending family connections with theological insights. The complexities of the Trinity are explored through historical and contemporary lenses, highlighting the Latter-day Saints' struggles during the Civil War and their quest for divine protection.

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INSIGHT

Prophetic Limits And Unanswered Prayer

Joseph Smith prayed for specific answers about Zion's redemption but often received "be still and know that I am God."
Gerrit shows prophetic leadership can face limits and unanswered questions from God.

ADVICE

Respond To Silence With Patience

When God withholds detailed timing, accept patience and continue faithful consecration like Abraham's trial.
Emulate Joseph's humility: trust God's timing and keep serving despite unanswered questions.

ANECDOTE

Listener Question On The Trinity

Lacey emailed that the King James Bible made the Trinity unintelligible and that she reads Father, Son, and Spirit as separate beings.
The hosts used her question to unpack how mainstream Christians defend the Trinity despite such verses.

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In this episode, we continue our discussion of the context leading to Orson Hyde writing a letter to the Missouri Republican. Utah is desperately trying to get into the Union while half of the states are seceding from the Union. Gerrit then reads the letter and provides commentary. We also discuss a litner’s email about Christian’s understanding of the Trinity based on the King James Version of the Bible.

Kristy’s KorneЯ (Last Minute Lesson Prep): Gerrit shares his thoughts on D&C 101 and the idea of what do we do when the Lord doesn’t answer our prayers in the way we may want

Image attempting to explain the Trinity:
https://thepentecostalwesleyan.substack.com/p/the-core-doctrines-of-the-christian-4fb

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Rex's Elders Quorum President's Show Notes: •00:05:00 – Sunday School etiquette humor and Kristy’s Corner segment •00:07:20 – D&C 101: Zion’s expulsion, Joseph’s 1833 letter to Missouri Saints •00:10:04 – Lessons from unanswered prayers — “be still and know that I am God” •00:12:16 – Hope of Zion’s redemption and Abrahamic parallels of consecration •00:13:52 – Listener mailbag: Lacey’s email on the Trinity and KJV •00:16:02 – Banter about reading emails late and missionary timelines •00:18:08 – Explaining the Nicene Creed: three persons, one God, and why it confuses •00:20:28 – The “triangle diagram” of the Trinity and its limits •00:23:00 – Matthew 3:16–17 — Baptism of Jesus challenges Trinity claims •00:25:22 – Workarounds: Some early Christians claimed “the voice was an angel” •00:28:05 – Story: Lithuanian Catholic convert rejects Trinity after reading scripture •00:31:00 – Council of Nicaea and how early Christians struggled with monotheism & Christ’s divinity •00:35:26 – Who still uses the King James Bible today? Presbyterians, Baptists, Pentecostals •00:39:16 – NIV vs KJV — John 1:18 and doctrinal differences in translation •00:41:00 – Listener Dawson’s email introduces Orson Hyde’s Civil War letter •00:45:00 – Charleston newspapers: downplaying fears of large-scale war in 1861 •00:48:00 – Missouri newspapers: hope that secession won’t mean inevitable war •00:51:00 – Virginia’s call for a 10,000–20,000 militia — seen as scandalous then •00:55:00 – Hartford Convention (1814): New England nearly secedes during War of 1812 •01:00:00 – Hindsight bias: Chamberlain’s “peace for our time” compared with prophecy •01:05:00 – Critics on D&C 87 — manuscript evidence and Pearl of Great Price 1851 printing •01:10:00 – Faith and prophecy: why hindsight makes Joseph’s revelation look “obvious”