Lessons Learned As A SEAL Officer and As The Asst Secretary of Defense – Michael Lumpkin
Nov 8, 2023
auto_awesome
Michael Lumpkin, a Navy SEAL Captain and former Assistant Secretary of Defense, discusses his unique perspective on leadership, training, and accountability in organizations. Topics include the importance of maintaining high standards in training, the role of civilian oversight in the military, and lessons learned from the tragic shootdown of a helicopter. Lumpkin also shares insights on teamwork during military operations and the challenges of transitioning from the military to the private sector.
Importance of maintaining standards and aligning accountability, responsibility, and authority in organizations with rapid growth.
Understanding the tactical and policy-making aspects of organizations and anticipating consequences in leadership roles.
The significance of organizational culture and the role of honesty, training weaknesses, and inspections in achieving operational excellence.
Lessons on leadership, adaptability, and the importance of outcomes, emphasizing the principles of creating a focused and committed workforce and setting clear goals.
Deep dives
Diverse career and unique perspective on leadership
Michael Lumkin has an extensive background, including being a Navy SEAL Captain, Assistant Secretary of Defense, and Chief of Staff at US Immigration and Customs Enforcement. His broad level of knowledge at tactical, operational, and strategic levels of national power gives him a unique perspective on leadership, selection, and standards. He emphasizes the importance of remaining objective about weaknesses and continually improving. He also highlights the need for organizations to have a strong culture and the value of aligning accountability, responsibility, and authority within the organization.
Challenges of rapid growth and maintaining standards
During his time as the head of the West Coast SEAL teams, Lumkin faced the challenge of rapid growth within the organization. He highlights the importance of maintaining standards despite the increase in numbers. He emphasizes the necessity of sacrificing top performers as trainers and having an alignment of accountability, responsibility, and authority within the organization. Lumkin also stresses the value of learning from tactical, operational, and strategic lessons to avoid repeating past mistakes.
Bringing insights from tactical experience to policy making
After transitioning to policy and legislative roles within the military, Lumkin highlights the importance of having leaders who understand both the tactical and policy-making aspects of their organizations. He suggests that leaders should understand why decisions are made and anticipate second and third-order consequences. Lumkin also discusses the need for policy makers to have a better understanding of the challenges faced by operators on the ground, and for operators to explain their perspectives to policy makers.
Importance of organizational culture and inspections
Lumkin emphasizes the significance of organizational culture and how it can impact strategy. He stresses that culture trumps strategy and the importance of embracing honesty, training weaknesses, and implementing inspections. Lumkin shares examples from his experience, such as the importance of checklists in aviation safety and the need for leaders to understand the difference between management and leadership. He also highlights the role of inspections in preventing costly mistakes and ensuring operational excellence.
The unique tasks and projects I took on in government roles
Throughout my career, I had the opportunity to work on various unique and interesting projects in government roles. For example, I served as the undersecretary of defense for policy and was involved in counter-terrorism efforts, reorganizing the POW MIA effort, and negotiating the recovery of Sergeant Beau Bergdahl from Taliban custody. Additionally, I led the Department of Defense's task force to eradicate Ebola from West Africa. These experiences allowed me to apply my skills and knowledge gained from my special operations background to successfully accomplish these challenging tasks.
The importance of information warfare and counter-messaging
During my time at the State Department, I played a crucial role in counter-ISIS messaging and information operations. I recognized the power of social media and the internet in shaping people's beliefs and behaviors. By leveraging targeted messaging and digital advertising tools, we were able to counter extremist ideologies and prevent potential recruits from joining ISIS. This experience highlighted the significance of information warfare and the need to stay ahead of evolving social media trends to effectively combat extremist narratives.
Lessons learned from my diverse experiences
Throughout my career, I have learned valuable lessons about leadership, adaptability, and the importance of outcomes. Whether it was leading a software company in the private sector or serving in government roles, the principles of creating a focused and committed workforce, setting clear goals, and leveraging data to drive decision-making remained consistent. I have also emphasized the importance of humility in leadership, recognizing that success is not about personal ego but about serving the mission and achieving tangible results. These lessons continue to shape my approach to problem-solving and decision-making.
My guest today is Michael Lumpkin. Michael has served many roles in his extremely distinguished career including Navy SEAL Captain, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low Intensity Conflicts, Acting Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, Deputy Chief of Staff for the Department of Veterans Affairs, Special Assistant to Sec Def, and a Special Envoy at the Department of State.
Michael’s military career included numerous deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, serving as the Officer in Charge of training the West Coast SEAL Teams, Team Commanding Officer, service as the Deputy Joint Special Operations Task Force Commander for The Arabian Peninsula, and service at the USSOCOM Office of Legislative Affairs.
His civilian government career has included the implementation of the 2010 Omnibus Caregivers Act for VA, overseeing the Osama Bin Laden operation, reorganizing the DOD POW/MIA effort, leading the DOD’s response to Ebola in West Africa, negotiating and executing the recovery of Sgt Bowe Bergdahl, and direct appointment by the President to stand up the US Department of State Global Engagement Center to counter ISIS marketing efforts.
Michael is currently the Chief of Staff at US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and a Commissioner on the Afghanistan War Commission.
I really enjoyed this chat because Michael has a uniquely broad level of knowledge at the tactical, operational, and strategic levels of national power including on both the military and civilian sides. This has given him a very unique perspective on leadership, selection, and standards.
Books Recommended
Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
Get the Snipd podcast app
Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Save any moment
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Share & Export
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
