Pushing The Limits Ep 119: How to monitor your training intensity using technology
In this weeks episode Lisa Tamati and Neil Wagstaff talk about the benefits and disadvantages of using the various technologies available to improve your training results and optimise your performance.
From watches to apps and heart rate monitoring they look at the good the bad and the ugly of using these tools.
Here is the link to the blog on the Heart Rate Reserve Method of monitoring your training intensity
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Running Hot - By Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff
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Epigenetics Testing Program by Lisa Tamati & Neil Wagstaff.
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These are just some of the questions you'll uncover the answers to in the Epigenetics Testing Program along with many others. There's a good reason why epigenetics is being hailed as the "future of personalised health", as it unlocks the user manual you'll wish you'd been born with!
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You can find all our programs, courses, live seminars and more at www.lisatamati.com
Transcript of the show
Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati brought to you by Lisa Tamati.com. Speaker 2: (00:12) Hi everyone. Lisa Tamati here at pushing the limits once again with my business partner Neil Wagstaff in Havelock North. How's it going Neil? Speaker 3: (00:20) It's good. Thanks Lis I am good. Speaker 2: (00:22) Good. And we've got another great show for you today. What are we talking about today? Neil Speaker 3: (00:26) We're going to be talking about using technology. Technology is a great thing. It can be a scary thing. It can be something that can, we can use to our advantage but also if it's used inappropriately it can, it can really slow us down with, with getting the results and performance we want. Speaker 2: (00:41) Yeah. So technology and we have to qualify that in regards to training. Now we're talking about, I'm using technology didn't relate here unnecessary evil in our world, but we are actually going to be talking about things like your Watchers, your heart rate monitors and your strivers and net, my runs and, and apps and, and that type of thing. And how to, how to use it and what benefits they bring, the pros and the cons of doing it. And how we use it a little bit with our athletes, with some of them and not with others. And why that is. So Neo, what watch do you use for starters? What's your favorite? Speaker 3: (01:18) I'm a Garmin fan. I've been a karma fan probably for past four or five years now. And it allows, it gives me the information I want and I'll find the, eh, for the length of runs I'm doing it, it gives me, gives me good battery life, a lot of the accuracy and a lot the lot of feedback it gives me. Speaker 2: (01:35) Yeah, I've got a Alma Gammon girl toe Garmin four runner two, three five as my one. And I'm not a big statistic person generally, so like you're a lot more statistics orientated than they may personality wise, but I still find it things like, you know, your sleep and your sleep quality and how deep you are sleeping and some of those sort of aspects. Good. As well as your heart rate monitor when you're training. But I don't get absolutely hung up on all the statistics like some people do and some people that, so that's a benefit. So we're both Garmin fans but there are a lot of other great watches out there, some too well some of the others polar you know, having a watch that as a sport orientated, watch that you can use it whether you're doing lap times, if you want to control your heart rate all of these things can be beneficial. Speaker 2: (02:24) List. Talk a little bit about heart rate monitoring, how you can use that to monitor the intensity of your training. We've just put up a blog on our website, at www.lisatamati.com which looks a little bit, it was a quick meant to the quick guide to how to sort of workout how intense your training is based on your age. And this is a bit of a, you know, a guide, not to be Satan concrete, but Neil, do you want us to discuss that a little bit and how that happened? Yeah, Speaker 3: (02:58) Let me, I mean the beauty of beauty of watches these days is if you're giving the watch tracker your information, so you, when you set up your watch, it'll ask you if you're age and ask you if your resting heart rate ask you for various different types of information. So the watch will give you very good idea on training zones anyway. What we're not so good at a lot of the time is following those. So if your watch tells you you need some recovery, then listen to what it's what it's saying. So the, the idea being that once you got your heart rates in there, then if your program says you should be doing a high intensity interval training session, then you're going to be operating up at 85 90% of your, your max heart rate. If you should be doing a recovery run. And that could be lower down at 55 60 maybe top 65% of your maximum heart rate. Speaker 3: (03:44) So the beauty of the watch is it will give you all that information so you can use the watch based on your programs. So right, these are the designs and areas I want to work in. If you're not using a watch though and you just want a snapshot of how hard you should be working, then you can use some simple formulas out there. We use the heart rate reserve method or Caveda method. And what we're looking at there is I'm just doing a simple two 20 minus your age punched only two 20 minus your age. You then take off your heart rate and so your resting heart rate and work out your percentages from there. And most people would recommend your workout from 60% up to 90% in 5% increments. And then you simply add back on your heart rate so that your resting heart rates that number and it'll give you training zones. Speaker 3: (04:28) So easiest thing to do with that is refer to the blog. Lisa can put that in the show notes just that day and that take you through, walk you through how to do it and it gives you an idea of where you, where you should be working. Where this becomes really useful is if you've been struggling with runs or you feel like you could get more potential out of your body, then actually doing either a full max heart rate test or actually seeing how your heart responds on a run. It's a really useful way to work out. Are you really getting best bang for your buck? Good example is when we, when we ran when we ran across the country for for Samuels trust and a few years back, I'm, I'm notorious for going out quick and really focusing and this is a good example of, of how not to, not to use a be watch. Speaker 3: (05:13) I become very focused on my case per minute. Okay. So I'm flexing, right? I, I want to say that, for example, a five minute case and that's, that's what I want to want to be doing. So if I'm, if I'm doing that, then that's fine. Up to a certain distance. If I need to be running longer than that's gonna hurt me. Yeah. So what we're very, very well for me with heart rate is going right, I need to be operating at a much lower heart rate. So if I am operating at around one 35 one 40 beats per minute and I know regardless of pace I'm going to be good for a long distance because I can, I can hold that. So bringing in heart rate into the mix there really does start to, it made my training more effective. I didn't worry about speed, I worried about right a stand the zones I set my set, my watch to beep if I went above it and then no worries on how fast it was going. Speaker 3: (06:02) I needed to know that I could last a long time and a long, a long period. So use it for your, for your goal. At the moment I'm running a lot shorter and I'm more interested in getting results for my four four and five K times. So I'm more interested now in taking the data out and going, right. I want to know the heart rate zone. I should be pushing hard for some of my runs and it should be up in the 85 90% effort. More importantly, I can keep an eye on how fast my Kayser and then again on top of that from a technique and performance and efficiency point of view, where's my cadence at? So I know if I can push my cadence up, my efficiency is going to get gonna get better and therefore I'm going to be going to be getting closer to my goal. So use the information in particular heart rates we're talking about here to apply it to your goal. Okay. Apply it to your goal. If you're getting warning signs, like you're going out and doing a recovery run and it's showing you that you are 70, 80, 90% of your max heart rate. Something's not right either with the technology or your body. Speaker 2: (07:00) Yeah. And this is actually we, the has a little bit of limitations and I know that I,n my my life is, is I don't actually conform to the, the age thing. So 220, minus my age, I, if I'm running it there and then trying to do 60 to 80% of that, then I'm actually in the anaerobic zone according to that a whole lot of the time. So it's a general rule of thumb and it doesn't always give you a completely accurate results. So sometimes like I'll be operating at a higher heart rate than I should be, but I know that I'm actually aerobic and I know that because I've got enough experience to, to know where my body is going in and out. Speaker 3: (07:43) With a lot of our one on one clients and there's a couple I've done this with in the past. The past few weeks is we send them out to do a max heart rate test. This can be done on there's no need for it to be done in lab conditions, which isn't practical for most people. So we use a field test we put in place, which are people interested in. We'll send you the guidelines on what the field test is and then that will give you a true maximum heart rate. Once you got the true maximum heart rate, then we work out the percentages from there. And in both of these, these clients' cases once we've got the true maximum heart rate, we then started getting more bang for their buck from their interval, the interval sessions in their threshold sessions. Because all of a sudden we were pushing up a beat cause like you were their age, they weren't, they weren't falling into the averages. So if you're interested in that, what you've got to be willing to do with that though is with the field test you've got, you've got to be comfortable, get pretty much going to your, to falling over. Speaker 2: (08:36) Yeah. And which isn't much fun. But yeah, because there is that, that role of some role of 220 minus your age, you know, can be completely skewed if you're a particularly good for your age, hopefully that's what it's showing me and it's therefore not quite appropriate. So just understanding the limitations of the test. And then using it to your best advantage. And the other side of the side of that coin is that you can become so tied up with the science. And we have some, some of our athletes, a lot of stuff, very much, well looking at the genetic profiles, most of them are crusaders like you kneel and I'm very analytical, very do you want to know about those different buyer types? And if your genetics we can take you through that one day. But very analytical, very statistic buys, very wanting to have all that data and want to be able to work completely with data. Speaker 2: (09:30) And that works for some people, but other people, they find that completely intimidating. They don't want to know all that. They just want to be able to run it and joy and you know, and, and sometimes people get a bit obsessive with the statistics and that can become a actual negative as well because you can be so focused on that you're not actually listening to your body and not actually actually feeling how am I actually feeling right now and should I be pushing this? So it's, it's having the, the, the experience and the wisdom a little bit to use a technology to your advantage but not to, not to be a slave to the technology and, you know, Speaker 3: (10:05) Totally, totally agree. One of the ways I've I've overcome my obsession and addiction with numbers is I I, I I no longer plug my, my, my watching, I plug it in to charge it, but I don't save any of the data or download any of the data. I don't actually look anymore at this point in with where I'm at, cause I use the watch to see where I'm at on my run and then I won't compare runs from previous runs or anything like that. I just look at where I'm at on the day. I use our wellness check with all our clients. So you get a subjective view before I leave for my run. Where am I at from a nutrition point of view, a stress point of view or hydration point of view, movement, niggles, injuries. And then I, I take all that and go, right, I'm feel good to go. (10:47) My scores are good and then I'll just keep an eye on Watchers. I'll go, but I won't any more. Use it as a to go back and track track data sometimes. I that's useful. And for some of, as you, so for some of our opponents we do do that because it gets some great results, but it's very important, which is what you're alluding to is that you use it to your advantage. Speaker 2: (11:07) Yeah. You'll personality chart. Yep. You know, and you make it work for you. And the other, the other danger was things like, you know, or I met my run and Cobra and all those apps that monitor your, you know, your kilometers, you're doing the speed, you're doing it at the, the, the road that you're taking and the comparisons to last week. And then you've got all the comp, the competition that comes out through that. And like, I know my husband finds that great. He loves it. You know, he's always putting his stuff up on striver and comparing how he did last week on that road to how someone else's doing. And comparing where he's on the ranks and all that sort of crap. Whereas I just not interested in that. And the, the problem that can come with that is then that you come, you very much come painting every time you go for a training and you're not actually doing what's on your actual training pain, which said you should be going out for cruisy day recovery day and then you're going fast. Speaker 2: (12:01) Cause you don't want anyone, it's think you can only run X amount of minutes per kilometer. And so you get too competitive and you're not actually following the structure of the plan, if that makes sense. And the flip side of that is also that a lot of people just want to collect kilometers for their strava account because if it doesn't, if it's not on, strava it didn't happen. This is a bit like Instagram, you know, life didn't happen if it wasn't on Instagram. And that mentality can also trip people up because you know, you're, you're, you're not doing it for the right reasons and you're not, you competing all the time rather than actually having a benefit. And what's most important is that you realize that strength training and mobility training, which is what we preach all the time, is also iPod and you are training. So if you're if you're getting an extra 10 K's a week, but you've sacrificed to strengthen your mobility, you gotta be way worse as a runner in the long run than if you had done those. Speaker 3: (12:59) And that's the, I mean that's, that's the beauty of our app as well. Cause you can use strava. Yes. That's actually should be our by line. If it, isn't on running hot app it didn't happen. We can connect to our app strava and Garmin. So you can not only see the runs, you see the mobility sessions completed and the and the strength sessions completed as well. But, but getting that balance, getting that balance as you say is, is key. But just want to come back to the personality types a bit as well, if, because again, for some people who are going through the pros and cons and there's not going to be, we're not gonna give you a perfect answer at the end of this podcast saying this is how to do it. Speaker 3: (13:44) We just want to make you very aware that what you should be paying attention to. The other thing that some people get great results from has been part of the community. So as a big part of what our business and running hall is built on, it's been in part of the community where you get support. So the technology can provide that as well. It can help you do that. If you are part of a community, if you are sharing it on Strava, if you're part of a sharing through Garmin, if you're doing it through running halt, then it does, it does definitely help with allowing you to know that you've got that support and accountability around you. Speaker 2: (14:15) Yeah, absolutely. And so once again, using it to your advantage and you know, so without at, so we have a you know, an a mobile friendly app that you can, you have on your phone and you can use it when you go out and you'll get all your mobility workouts, all your strength workouts as well as your run station. So it's not just counting your kilometers and ignoring the other thing. So it's actually quite good when you have it on your calendar. Yup. Tech, tech tech. I did, I did my mobility, I did my strength and I did my actual run stations to where strap variety counselor kilometers. I so that, that's really important. I think. So. what else? You know what I was sort of technology stuff is out there. Neo and what else do you use? I mean like this, you know, running with music, running Speaker 3: (15:00) Well I'll use, yeah, I use when I'm, when we started creating our programs like five years ago, at least as part of creating the programs weren't for the process of checking they were. And one of the, one of the things we built in one of our foundation programs was using a metronome. So for five weeks on our foundation one program, I literally ran with a metronome to make sure that the intervals were putting together the sessions we were putting together. They worked, they did what they said on the packet and they got the results they they should. Once I tested it, we then tested it, well the people and does it work and as we built the, built the programs up, that's that's how it was done. So running with a metronome is great. If you're looking to increase cadence and efficiency and run more constantly injury free, you can download. We use one from frozen eight you can download a simple metronome, put it on if you want to do what I did and remember the beep in your ear. That's reasonably insane. Way to do it. If you'd rather listen to some music on now I now use, I just got onto a Spotify list Speaker 2: (15:57) and I will download run music for 180 beats per minute. Speaker 3: (16:01) You can do it 170 and there's various different options on there. So do a base test, which you can easily do straight away. Go out and count your cadence, how many times you've put such as a four in one minute. Tom's about to, you can do it off your left foot, your right foot, and then see where you're at. If you want to increase it slightly, go and get some music. If you're at one six, eight go and get some music that Speaker 2: (16:21) Susan, one 70. Yeah. So what is the, what is a good cadence? You know, like I'm for people who don't understand what cadences are speeding your feet that are turning over and then the last time you were actually on the ground, the more efficient your running stylists. So if you're planting your foot and again you've got a very slow and big long strides but slow, steep and you're putting all the weight into the ground each time, then you're not going to be as efficient as someone who's just you know, like running on hot coal was a few like and going very fast with the legs. Smaller, smaller steps perhaps, but they're going faster. That's what you call a high cadence. And that coupled with all the techniques, stuff helps you run faster basically in run more efficiently energy. And you know, that's a topic for another day as forms and drills and so on. But so what is a good cadence in your answer? Speaker 3: (17:11) going go on and look now, then they probably get around that they can, well, they work, they get around the 180 plus and some of the stuff that people will read and again, don't, don't get hung up on it. Another example we're talking on technology you shouldn't get hung up on is you know, if the 180 is the sweet spot and anything above that, then great that there's great evidence there that shows that. However, what we'd rather you do is see where you right now. So we are fans of meeting you where you are at right now and then helping you improve from there. We've had great wins with people improving their cadence from one six eight one seven five and now they're running pain free, no injuries. And the pain that they had had is gone. Speaker 3: (17:56) And they're quite comfortable. Do they need to get up to one I80. they might get small wins, but if they're happy where they are, it's about the individual. So please, when you're looking at all your numbers on your watch, your heart rate, your speeds, your cadence, however you're doing it, and whatever type of technology are you using, please use yourself as the baseline. Don't worry about what anyone else is doing and understand, which we've talked about on other podcasts. Your why. So don't worry about, I speak, we speak to a lot of people that want to get here because that's what, that's what the world says I should do. That's what you're told. You do get to where you want to be because it's your purpose and it's your why and understand that yeah. Improving cadence will help. Having a bit of a heart rate will help, but it should be better in relation to where you want it to be too. Speaker 2: (18:43) Yeah. Yeah. We don't want to have to be an Olympic athlete so we can stop. Where we are at, and it's comparing you to you always, and we're very big on that anyway. That it's not about comparing yourself to every other person on the planet. It's about, you know, doing, doing the base for your body at this time and for your goals that you've got. Sit out for us. What other technology? I'm just trying to rack my brain of different technologies that are out there. I mean, what's your take on running with music? In regards, like for safety on like not a great fan of, of wearing headphones or having things in your ear when you're running on roads and stuff. And even on, even in the Bush, like if you've got both ears covered, I sometimes run with like one athletic in one ear. Speaker 2: (19:30) It's, you know, I like to be aware of my surroundings and you're just sometimes with your toe into the music and it can be really motivating. It can be really good, but you watch out for traffic. Right. Cause you know, I have been hit once and, and when I was running through New Zealand in Oakland and I had my things on and I just didn't hear this car come around the corner and hit me. Luckily I wasn't injured, but you know, it could have been different. And that's cause I hate the things in my ear. And even in nature, I like to, there's this subtle things that your brain picks up when it's actually tuned into your environment and when you put in something in your ears and it can broke out that part of the perception that's on their almost subconscious level. And you can, you know, not hear the, somebody coming up behind you or this, you know, those sort of things. So just being aware of your safety or at all times if you have got stuff in your ear. Speaker 3: (20:23) Yeah, correct. That's , and again, it will be very personal. It'd be very much down to people's people's health type profile and where they're at, what weights, what makes them right. But I think the key message there from, as you say, is make sure it's, it's safe. It's and you aware the environments around you. If you really are gonna need your senses, then don't block them. But if you're running in a safe environment that you know, you know where you're going, you know what you're doing, your notes, you know it's very safe then and music helps you then then use it to help you. It definitely helps me. I'm a huge fan of running your music but there's certain times or a one if I'm running certain areas or yeah, place, I don't know. But it does that, it allows me to relax and get into my, in smaller [inaudible] Speaker 2: (21:12) I was just going to go to a, in regards to technology Speaker 3: (21:17) And I've lost my train of thought. I think the, the, the bits we've covered there leaves with the, you know, the, the main ones of what is the main message we wanted people to take away from this was understanding how to use it to your advantage, understand the, how to apply it to your to your programming, to your goal, to your why. And I think what you mentioned there as well, the, the so many apps out there to help you with your, with your running, with your, with your fitness, with your health fits, choose things based on your why. I think it should be the, the clear message. If you're going to add a tool into the mix with your training, the tool should help you get to your why, your goal, your purpose a whole lot quicker. If the tool is you're just adding it in because everyone else is using it, then if it's not going to give you any value, don't use it if it gives you value personally and that's where we can help because for some people with our programming where we're so right, heart rate training is definitely for you. Speaker 3: (22:16) For others, we wouldn't even, some people, some of our clients I've actually told to throw the Watchers way but more, we don't want to put it away in a drawer. You're not using that for the next six months because it's confusing issue. Yep. Others we say, right, you need to go and buy a watch. But that's because it's very relevant to their, to their why and what they want to achieve. So when you make new choices, make it based on what you want to, what you want to achieve. Speaker 2: (22:37) Listening to your body is always a good message. I think that's probably covered that set subject. Any last words that you wanted to put up and then any other areas that you wanted to cover off under this? Speaker 3: (22:50) No, I don't think we were just bringing people back to full circle to what you finished with there on our a wellness check. So do what you're getting from a technological point, technology point of view. Please, please, please listen to what your body's saying. So our wellness check allows you to do that from a very subjective point of view. So going through a simple checklist of where your body is at each day, we'll let you know where you're at. Trust your trust your heart, and trust your gut with your decisions as well. And that's probably a whole, whole another side. Speaker 2: (23:21) That's the whole another subject. At the moment studying. Yeah. Are you Speaker 3: (23:28) Making your decisions? They, your gut will tell you things. Your brain tells you things and your heart definitely tells you things. But those are those three things where you're making your decisions and includes around the technology. The technology might be worth telling you one thing, but the gut, the heart, the brain one, all three might be telling you another, don't stop listening to this because Speaker 2: (23:48) We've got the technology Speaker 3: (23:49) Well, the technology say tell you something. No one knows you better than you. I don't care what any coach says. Any thoughts or any health professional, the person that knows you better than anyone else's you. So you, you've got all the answers. You just need to choose which tools you're going to take to get those answers. Does that make sense? Speaker 2: (24:07) And you need to trust your instincts and your intuition and use the need to understand when you're being just lazy or when you've been actually sensible. You know? And this is what the wellness check helps people do. So for those who haven't heard us talk about our wellness chip before, it's just basically a spritz switch spreadsheet that you look at every day. That ticks off is an eight different areas I think. So hydration, nutrition, sleep your stress levels, whether you got any injuries and you're writing yourself on a scale of one to 10 now one being not so good, 10 being on point. And if your hydration and nutrition and you had a bad sleep and you had been stressed to hell at work and you meet to go out and do a really intense long session, then that's not a good combination. So you might want to shift days around. Speaker 2: (24:50) And so this gives us a a day by day a taste, a few like a quick one minute taste to say, yep, these are my numbers and Whoa, I'm not doing too well today. I'm feeling a little bit often. My hydration wasn't good and I had a really shitty nights and order this for the staff and then I probably shouldn't go and smash my body on top of it. In the past, I used to, if I didn't feel good, I used to go harder. You know, if I, if I had had a couple of drinks a day before, then I'd gone special South, even worse because I'd been bad. There's actually a really dumb thing to do cause your body's already under stress and you're actually overstressing on top of the streets. And the number one intimate of performance is stress. The number one enemy of, of everything alive as stress. Speaker 2: (25:37) If we have too much stress in our bodies, our digestion doesn't work properly, our immune system doesn't work properly. Intuitive nature doesn't work properly. And Brian Stein say everything, it's got tunnel vision. You can't make decisions. All of these things. So we don't want to be adding to the streets liberals in their body. We want to be working with optimizing our performance and this wellness cheek. I'll put a link in the show notes or you can contact us to get one of those as well. But that's a really good subjective way. You know, old SKO, not part of technology but just a subjective way to test everything. Speaker 3: (26:13) But if your technology laces, if you're, the technology you've got is doing the job, it should, when you test you, when you go through that subjective score, you, if you get it right and you've got in tune with your body, and that's the whole point of going through this we want are the people that are working with us and the people that are listening to us to be in tune with their body. If you're in tune with it, then you've got this right and your scores are low, your watch should be telling you you need sleep and rest. If you, if you, if you scored high, then you'll look at your watch and say, yeah, go run and go and go heart. And that's what important want to get. Where we want to get everyone to is that they're that in tune, that they listen to the body, that that needs the technology. But the technology is just confirming that this is, this is, this is good. You're doing well. Speaker 2: (26:55) It's better to go to a yoga session today, then go into a city, Karen maybe, right? Speaker 3: (26:59) Yeah, and vice versa. Sometimes it's best thought. You go out and you do your 30 K run cause everything's stacking up as it should. Speaker 2: (27:06) Yeah. Alright, well thanks Neil. It's been a great little subject for the today's podcast. I hope you enjoyed that. Just a heads up guys. I had the real great privilege them a couple of days ago being on a do at church radio and just want to give a plug to met and a Eugene over at [inaudible]. It's radio. Fantastic Comcast. Make sure you go and check out that episode that I did with them and also all of their other great guests that that had on there. I think the guys are brilliant. I'm going to have them on my show shortly. So watch out for that and yeah, make sure you go back and check out all the other great podcasts episodes that we've done on here. We've had a couple of great weeks with JJ Virgin last week and Tom Cronin, who's the producer of the portal, a massive worldwide huge movie coming out very, very soon. Speaker 2: (27:52) So you don't want to miss out on all that action. And if we can ask you guys a favor, please go and do a writing and review for the show on iTunes. That really, really helps the show get exposure, get a better rating and all those things are really, really important for the show. So if you enjoy that and you like what we do in the content that we've reduced sets away that you guys can help support the show and we'd really, really appreciate it. And there's always, if you want to reach out to Neil awry, you can reach us either via the website. Just go to Lisa@lisatamati.com. Hit us up on the contact buttons here. You can or you can just email me at least the, at least at lisa@lisatamati.com or neil@runninghotcoaching.com. Okay. All of those things will find us. We're pretty easy to reach. We're on all the social media, at least lisatamati on Instagram. Lisa Tamati on Facebook and yeah, really easy to find and please reach out to us if you've got any questions or we can help you with your journey. We'd love to do that. And we'll see you again next week guys. Thanks Neil. Speaker 1: (28:54) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to rate, review and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at least at www.lisatamati.com.
The information contained in this show is not medical advice it is for educational purposes only and the opinions of guests are not the views of the show. Please seed your own medical advice from a registered medical professional.