Podcast explores Thomas Nagel's surprising essay on sexual perversion and the nature of sexual desires. Discussion includes a new study on attitudes about sexual assault with sex robots. The hosts analyze Nagel's arguments against the notion of perversion and explore the complexities of hunger and sexual desire. They also discuss the concept of desire, the role of fantasy in sexual desire, and whether engaging in non-traditional sexual activities qualifies as perversion.
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Quick takeaways
Sexual desire is a relational experience that goes beyond perceiving someone's embodiment, emphasizing the importance of mutual recognition and embodiment in shaping natural and non-perverse interactions.
Sexual perversion exists when desire deviates from the relational and reciprocal nature, but determining what qualifies as a perversion is complex and subjective, influenced by individual preferences, societal norms, and ongoing debates around sexual ethics.
Nagel draws on Sartre's ideas to argue for the complexity of sexual attraction and the subjective nature of desire in his account of sexual perversion, exemplified through an analysis of erotic fiction involving Romeo and Juliet.
Deep dives
The Complexity of Sexual Desire
Nagel explores the multifaceted nature of sexual desire, highlighting its significance in human relationships and interactions.
The Perplexity of Perversion
Nagel attempts to defend the concept of sexual perversion from skeptics who label it as unintelligible by demonstrating the existence of perverse inclinations.
The Influence of Sartre's Perspectives
Nagel draws on Sartre's ideas about the complexity of sexual attraction and the subjective nature of desire to shape his own account of sexual perversion.
Exploring Erotic Fiction
Nagel presents an example of erotic fiction involving Romeo and Juliet, illustrating the interplay between sexual desire, subjectivity, and the unconscious nature of attraction.
The Relational Nature of Sexual Desire
Sexual desire is discussed as a relational experience between two people. The podcast explores how sexual attraction is not simply the perception of another person's embodiment, but the desire for one's own embodiment to contribute to and enhance the other person's sense of self. This mutual awareness and reciprocity in desire deepens the arousal and satisfaction for both individuals. The episode examines the importance of this relational aspect of sexual desire and its role in shaping our understanding of what is considered natural and non-perverse.
Exploring Perversions and Natural Sex
The podcast delves into the concept of sexual perversion and its relationship to natural sex. It suggests that sexual perversions arise when the inclination for desire deviates from the relational and reciprocal nature discussed earlier. The episode highlights that as long as sexual desire maintains the ideal of mutual recognition and embodiment between individuals, it falls within the realm of natural and non-perverse. However, it acknowledges that determining what qualifies as a sexual perversion can be complex and subjective, which is influenced by individual preferences, societal norms, and ongoing debates surrounding sexual ethics.
David and Tamler play the old hits – Thomas Nagel and sex robots. In the main segment we talk about Nagel’s essay “Sexual Perversion”, a surprising essay on many fronts (Sartre, erotic fiction, conceptual analysis, much more). What’s the nature of sexual desires? Can we say that some sexual interactions are perversions? Which ones? Can we have a perverse form of a hunger? Plus, a new study examines attitudes about sexual assault by probing for intuitions on assaulting sex robots. It gets more confusing from there.
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