Jerry Ratcliffe interviews Geoff Barnes, the director of criminology for the Western Australia police force. They discuss the importance of evidence-based policing and the role of senior leadership in making it sustainable. Barnes shares his experiences working with police departments and highlights the challenges of implementing evidence-based practices. He emphasizes the need for police-led experiments and the involvement of academics in supporting these initiatives. The conversation also touches on the difficulties of accessing research literature and the importance of critical thinking when reviewing studies.