Penn's Sunday School Mark Malkoff - Love Johnny Carson (part 1)
Jan 1, 2026
Mark Malkoff, an author and podcaster, dives deep into his passion for Johnny Carson in this engaging discussion. He shares anecdotes about Carson's purism around authenticity in performances and his relationships with comedians. They explore Carson's controversial guest choices, including Tiny Tim's memorable appearance, and the myths surrounding his life, such as his competitiveness and personal struggles. Malkoff also reveals the extensive research behind his book, interviewing over 400 people to capture the essence of Carson's genius.
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The Tonight Show Mixup
- Penn and Teller were slated for Johnny Carson but ultimately appeared with Jay Leno after a creative disagreement about Teller staying immobile in a water tank during commercials.
- Penn says Carson invited them but suggested they do their way with guest host Leno to preserve both artistic visions.
Missed Meeting After Sundance
- Penn describes being invited to show The Aristocrats movie to Johnny in Malibu, but Johnny died during Sundance, cancelling their meeting.
- Randy, Johnny's friend, called Penn weeping to tell them Johnny had died just after their Sundance success.
Carson's Quiet Humanism
- Mark Malkoff describes Johnny Carson as a humanist who avoided declaring beliefs publicly for fear of alienating viewers.
- Carson privately wished he had told people he was an atheist because it might have helped the world, according to accounts.