542 | Edward Fishman: Chokepoints - How America and Other Great Powers Wage Economic Warfare
Mar 25, 2025
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Edward Fishman, an expert on economic statecraft, joins to discuss the rise of economic warfare and its implications for global politics. He delves into the effectiveness of sanctions against Russia and how they intersect with U.S. interests in Ukraine. The conversation touches on the strategic use of economic leverage in potential U.S.-China conflicts, particularly over Taiwan. Fishman also reflects on the decline of globalization, explaining how economic competition is reshaping international relations and emphasizing the need for strategic resilience in a rapidly changing world.
Economic warfare, particularly through sanctions, has become a primary strategy for U.S. foreign policy in recent geopolitical conflicts.
Edward Fishman emphasizes that the effectiveness of economic sanctions can be overstated and results may vary in achieving political objectives.
The shift towards economic warfare signifies the end of the globalization era, prompting countries to focus on economic security and competition.
Deep dives
The Rise of Economic Warfare
Economic coercion, particularly through tariffs, has emerged as a significant tool in U.S. foreign policy, especially during the Trump presidency. The conversation highlights how previous administrations have also utilized tariffs, demonstrating a shift towards economic warfare as a strategy to achieve political goals both domestically and internationally. Edward Fishman, an expert in economic statecraft, argues that such economic measures provide a means to exert pressure on rival states without engaging in direct military conflict. This new focus may reflect a broader trend where great powers opt for economic levers rather than traditional military engagements.
Historical Context of Sanctions
Fishman shares his background in sanctions and economic warfare, noting his involvement in the imposition of sanctions on Iran and Russia during critical geopolitical events. He discusses the inception of financial sanctions as a response to the inadequacies of military interventions following the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Observing that policymakers have historically struggled with the translation of economic harm into desired political outcomes, Fishman argues that sanctions serve as a complex tool that can yield mixed results. The historical lessons learned from these case studies foster a nuanced understanding of the effectiveness of economic measures in international relations.
Challenges of Implementing Sanctions
The conversation addresses the perceived effectiveness of sanctions against Russia following its invasion of Ukraine, with Fishman asserting that initial assessments were overstated. Rather than maintaining sustained escalation of sanctions, the Biden administration exhibited restraint due to domestic concerns about inflation, which complicated the sanctioning of critical energy sectors. Fishman emphasizes that despite the challenges, the initial wave of sanctions did inflict significant economic damage on Russia and may lead to long-term consequences. However, the reluctance to target oil and gas sales highlights the difficulties of balancing domestic and foreign policy interests in a complex geopolitical landscape.
Defining Economic Choke Points
Fishman defines choke points as areas within the global economy where one country holds a dominant position, often resulting in a lack of viable alternatives. He highlights the U.S. dollar as a primary choke point due to its status as the world’s reserve currency and discusses other critical sectors such as semiconductors and maritime insurance that the U.S. influences. This concept underscores the importance of recognizing and protecting these vulnerabilities against adversarial strategies that could exploit them. As the global economic environment evolves, Fishman warns that new choke points may emerge, necessitating proactive efforts to safeguard economic interests.
The Future of Globalization
The discussion concludes with the assertion that globalization, as previously understood, is effectively dead, replaced by a new era of economic warfare and geopolitical competition. Fishman posits that while interdependence remains, the expectation of win-win relationships has diminished, leading countries to invest in their economic security and resilience. This new dynamic suggests a restructuring of the global economy without formal agreements, as sanctions and tariffs reshape trade flows. Looking ahead, Fishman anticipates a fragmented economic landscape, where the implications of these strategic choices will shape international relations for years to come.
Edward Fishman, author of Chokepoints: American Power in the Age of Economic Warfare, joins The Realignment. Edward and Marshall discuss the rise of economic warfare, from the War on Terror to the Obama administration's Iran nuclear deal and Russia's invasion of Ukraine, economic warfare track record when it comes to accomplishing desired political outcomes, the impact of American sanctions on Russia and whether their effects were overstated at the war's outset, the potential deterring effects of economic warfare, their potential use in a U.S.-China conflict over Taiwan, and the greater meaning of the end of the globalization era of the 1990s and 2000s.
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