Former US spy Jonna Mendez, CIA's chief of disguise during the Cold War, discusses the qualities of a spy and the moral complexities of their work. They share the thrilling story of Argo and other intriguing CIA operations. The balance between technology-focused intelligence gathering and human intelligence is explored, highlighting the importance of both. The personal challenges and sacrifices of being a spy are also discussed.
Confidence is essential to an effective disguise in espionage, going beyond simple wigs and mustaches.
Human intelligence gathering is still crucial in espionage, as machines cannot replace the insights and context provided by human agents.
Deep dives
Johnna Mendez's CIA career and expertise in disguise
Johnna Mendez, a former CIA insider, spent 27 years at the agency, rising to the position of the chief of disguise. Alongside her husband, Tony Mendez, they specialized in the techniques of deception, allowing agents and sources to hide in plain sight. Their work involved extensive training in disguise, which went far beyond simple wigs or mustaches. Disguise was seen as a vital tool, and Johnna emphasized that confidence is essential to an effective disguise. She also highlighted the importance of human intelligence gathering over technology, citing the example of Hamas breaching high-tech surveillance by avoiding human detection.
Spies in the era of technology and the CIA's role
The podcast episode explores the changes in espionage and intelligence gathering since Johnna Mendez's time at the CIA. While technology, such as electronic surveillance, cyber hacking, big data, and artificial intelligence, has revolutionized intelligence gathering, Mendez argues that human spies are still crucial. She emphasizes the value of human intelligence, stating that machines cannot replace the insights and context provided by human agents. She also acknowledges the challenge that free societies face compared to closed societies in terms of intelligence gathering due to privacy concerns and constraints.
Reflections on the CIA's history, mistakes, and the impact of spy work
Johnna Mendez acknowledges the mistakes made by the CIA throughout its history, from covert actions to failed intelligence operations. She mentions the removal of a democratically elected political figure in Iran as a significant mistake. However, she believes that the work of intelligence gathering remains essential for informed policymaking and the defense of the country. Despite the personal costs, such as strained relationships and limited ability to share experiences, Mendez sees joining the CIA as an honorable profession and highlights the continued necessity for spies in today's world.