What if we’re too late for a “Just Transition”, and the best we can hope for is a “Just Collapse”?

Dr. Tadzio Mueller started as an alter-globalisation protest leader in 1999 before embracing climate activism.

A spat on BlueSky with climate analyst and previous guest Ketan Joshi led to the suggestion to come on the show.

Richard differs on the inevitability, but this is a conversation, not a shouting match. It roams from LNG to “electric capitalism” to Paul Kingsnorth and crises of faith to Michael E. Mann to Isaac Asimov to adaptation.

Email info@wickedproblems.uk

Time Codes & Highlights

* [00:04:38] - Introduction to Tadzio Mueller, his background, and his evolution from an alter-globalization activist to a proponent of the "just collapse" theory.

* [00:05:20] - Insights into the dynamics of climate activism, the limitations of summit protests, and the strategic shifts within the movement.

* [00:11:04] - Mueller's personal journey through activism, including his preemptive arrest in 2009 and the realization of the inadequacies of current climate activism strategies.

* [00:17:31] - A critical examination of the relationship between economic growth and emissions, challenging the feasibility of decoupling them in the context of climate change.

* [00:26:59] - Exploring the psychological barriers to effective climate action, including societal repression and denial, and their impact on policy and activism.

* [00:33:56] - Introduction to the concept of "just collapse," its implications for society, and the necessity for a reevaluation of activism and societal priorities in the face of climate collapse and rising fascism.

* [00:54:58] - Mueller's take on the limitations of the degrowth movement and the distinction between analytical frameworks and actionable strategies in addressing climate collapse.

* [01:07:03] - Reflections on COVID-19 as a moment of potential leverage for governments to influence capitalism and its relevance to climate activism.

Recommended Resources

* Peaceful Sabotage - Where you can find his writings in German and English.

* Reflections on 1999 WTO protests in Seattle.

* Tadzio speaks in 2015 outside COP21 in Paris about the “Ende Gellände” movement that led to the pledge to phaseout lignite coal in Germany.

* Lützerath - the German village bulldozed in 2023 for a coalmine, and a turning point for Dr. Mueller.

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Graham Norton Q&A