In this podcast episode  Brian Miller, the Executive Director of Coach Approach Ministries (CAM), chats with Brandon Kelly, the Co-Director of 5Q. They discuss the APEST assessment, which is based on the five callings mentioned in Ephesians 4: apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, and teachers. This assessment helps individuals and organizations raise their level of intelligence in these areas. Brandon emphasizes the importance of all five callings working together and highlights the unique characteristics and roles of each calling. They also discuss calling, distinguishing it from spiritual gifts and emphasizing the need to live in reflection of one's calling rather than conforming to others' expectations. The conversation touches on practical applications and the importance of appreciating and applying one's calling in a mature and discerning manner.

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