Kim Stanley Robinson on Technology, Climate and Capitalism
Mar 11, 2024
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Renowned science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson discusses his impactful novel Ministry for the Future, exploring themes of climate change, capitalism, and society. The conversation touches on terraforming Mars, sea-level rise in Lower Manhattan, and the importance of decarbonization solutions. Robinson's deep connection with nature, reflections on civil disobedience, global governance challenges, and utopian scenarios for the future are also highlighted.
Nature acts as a grounding force in Kim Stanley Robinson's life, inspiring his work and worldview.
Robinson highlights the urgent impact of climate change on the environment, emphasizing glacier retreat and altered landscapes.
Robinson advocates for reshaping capitalism towards sustainable practices, leveraging governmental policies and financial incentives for green initiatives.
Deep dives
Kim Stanley Robinson's Personal Relationship with Nature
Kim Stanley Robinson shares his deep connection with nature, reflecting on his upbringing near the ocean and in the Sierra Nevada mountains. From finding solace in the ocean's vastness to exploring the Sierra as a backpacker, nature has been a grounding force in his life. Transitioning to suburban life, he finds solace in his vegetable garden, highlighting the importance of daily interactions with nature beyond grand backpacking trips.
Impact of Climate Change on Sierra Nevada Glaciers
Robinson discusses the alarming effects of climate change, particularly noticeable during his Sierra treks. He observes dramatic changes like increased summer monsoons, dried-up stream beds turning into black trenches, and the rapid disappearance of Sierra glaciers. Robinson's firsthand encounters underscore the stark reality of climate change's impact on the environment and its accelerated effects on glacier retreat.
Role of Capitalism in Climate Change Solutions
Exploring the dynamics of capitalism, Robinson delves into its power structures and inherent inequalities. He emphasizes the need for a reevaluation of capitalism's role in addressing climate change, suggesting a shift towards a more equitable distribution of capital for sustainable initiatives. Robinson advocates for leveraging governmental policies and economic systems to support green projects, focusing on a collective effort to transition away from destructive practices and towards a sustainable future.
Potential of Rapid Change in Infrastructure and Investment Capital
Rapid change in infrastructure and investment capital can lead to significant shifts in addressing climate change. In the podcast, it is discussed how the structure of feelings, which determines what is perceived as normal and desirable by society, can change quickly, paving the way for transformative action. Furthermore, the importance of tweaking financial rules to incentivize investing in environmentally beneficial projects at the same profit levels as traditional investments is highlighted. This shift, driven by both private and government sectors, can unlock a boom in green projects and sustainability initiatives.
Role of Art and Creativity in Inspiring Change and Addressing Climate Issues
The podcast delves into the role of art, particularly novels, in inspiring new ways of thinking and addressing complex issues like climate change. By positioning nonfiction essays within a narrative, the podcast suggests that art can ignite creativity and encourage people to think beyond conventional boundaries. It emphasizes the power of novels in evoking emotional and imaginative responses from readers, leading to a deeper engagement with the content. Through storytelling and character development, novels can immerse readers in experiences that foster empathy and understanding, making them a potent tool for influencing perspectives and driving positive change.
Kim Stanley Robinson, renowned science fiction author, is our guest on this episode of MCJ. He is the author of the Ministry for the Future, a novel which outlines humanity's attempts to navigate climate change in the coming decades.
Former President Barack Obama named the Ministry for the Future as one of his favorite books of 2020. The work has been cited by numerous entrepreneurs and builders in the MCJ member community as having had a significant impact on their interest in working on climate and decarbonization solutions. The subject of climate change shows up in many of Kim Stanley Robinson's works from his Mars trilogy, written in the 1990s about humans terraforming Mars, to his science in the capital Series from the mid 2000s, to his 2017 novel, New York 2140, which is set in a Lower Manhattan that is submerged due to sea level rise.
And it shows up in many of his other works as well. Stan, as he goes by, has won numerous awards including the Hugo Award for best novel for both Green Mars and Blue Mars, and the Nebula Award for best novel for Red Mars and his book 2312. The Atlantic has called his work the gold standard of realistic and highly literary science fiction writing. And according to an article in the New Yorker, he is generally acknowledged as one of the greatest living science fiction writers. Stan and Cody have a wide-ranging conversation about his relationship with nature, his views on capitalism, society, government and technology, and of course his writings and his views on climate change and the path ahead for us all.
In this episode, we cover:
[03:04]: Stan's early life, finding solace in nature on the California coast
[06:40]: Writing "The High Sierra: A Love Story" during the pandemic
[08:57]: Noticing climate change impacts in the Sierra Nevada
[12:08]: Climate change awareness sparked by a 1995 trip to Antarctica
[14:13]: Mixing dread and hope in climate change discussions
[17:36]: Viewing technology as both hardware and software
[21:19]: Critiquing capitalism's role in power dynamics
[26:58]: Majority's desire for a sustainable world despite hurdles
[28:00]: Individual actions within broader societal efforts
[30:14]: Civil disobedience as a response to failed representation
[34:18]: The UN and other international governance's role in global challenges
[39:18]: The potential of international treaties in climate action
[42:11]: The concept of sudden societal change in climate action
[48:06]: Ministry for the Future and "following the money" in climate change narratives
[55:59]: Overview of Stan's works and current projects on Antarctica
Episode recorded on Feb 7, 2024 (Published on Mar 11, 2024)
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