How Collective Intelligence Will Rewrite Evolutionary Theory - Dr. J. Scott Turner, SUNY-ESF, DSPod 202
Nov 11, 2023
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Dr. J. Scott Turner, a physiologist who has contributed extensively to our understanding of collective intelligence, discusses rewriting Darwin's theory with a focus on epigenetics, collective intelligence, and purpose. Topics include the lung-like structure of termite mounds, regulation of underground nests, limitations of Darwinism, complex interactions within termite colonies, humans as organelles in the superorganism, influence of grant money on scientific research, and reification in science.
Collective intelligence is an integral part of the physiological success of termites, acting as an external lung for air filtration and circulation.
Darwinism alone is an incomplete representation of the dynamics of life, and a greater emphasis on epigenetics and collective intelligence is needed to rewrite evolutionary theory.
Termites' ability to build complex structures and create a suitable environment for their colony's survival showcases their ingenuity.
Life may be an ordering phenomenon rather than a disordering force, as organisms interact with and modify their environment to maintain persistence and function.
Termite colonies exhibit cooperation, negotiation, and possible competition, highlighting intricate interactions and dynamics within and between colonies.
Deep dives
Adaptation and the Limitations of Darwinian Evolution
The speaker, a retired professor of biology, questions the explanatory power of the Darwinian idea of evolution and highlights its limitations in understanding the origin of fitness and adaptation. The traditional concept of natural selection based on apt function genes is criticized for its circular reasoning and simplistic view of genes and genetic memory. The speaker argues for an alternate way of understanding evolution that goes beyond Darwinism and incorporates the complex interplay between physiology, genetic memory, and adaptation.
Termite Mounds as Complex Structures
The podcast explores the fascinating phenomenon of termite mounds, focusing on the termites' unique ability to build complex structures and create an environment suitable for their colony's survival. The mounds are not only habitations but also large lungs for the colonies, providing gas exchange similar to our own respiratory system. The termites' interaction with fungi, their regulation of humidity, and their water transport mechanisms all contribute to the persistence and functioning of the mounds as organisms within their environment.
Life as an Order-Producing Phenomenon
The concept of life as a disordering force is questioned, suggesting that life may actually be an ordering phenomenon. The speaker argues that organisms, from cells to superorganisms, interact with their environment and modify it to maintain their persistence and function. Using examples such as oxygen production in the Earth's atmosphere, the speaker emphasizes how life structures and enriches its environment, creating order on a larger scale. The interplay between different levels of organization and interactions between organisms shape the way living systems persist and adapt through time.
Interaction and Negotiation in Termite Colonies
Termite colonies exhibit interactions and negotiations both within and between colonies. The cooperative cultivation of a symbiotic fungus by termites illustrates the interdependence and mutual benefit within a colony. Multiple colonies in a field negotiate their boundaries and foraging territories, often without engaging in competitive fights. It is suggested that closely related colonies cooperate rather than compete. However, competition may occur when unoccupied territories become available. Overall, the podcast explores the intricate interactions and dynamics in termite colonies, highlighting cooperation, negotiation, and possible competition among individuals and groups.
The Importance of Termite Mound-Building Termites
Termite mound-building termites, known as macrotermis, occupy their territory intensively to prevent other competing weed termites from establishing a presence. Their presence is crucial for the existence of savannas, as they improve soil fertility, promote the growth of trees and grasses, and contribute to the creation and maintenance of ecosystems.
The Role of Humans in the Superorganism
The role of humans in the superorganism or interconnected web of life is to persist and strive to maintain and enhance the flow of matter and energy necessary for our existence. Humans adapt their environment, harness various sources of energy, participate in competition, and modify ecosystems. The consequences of our actions are complex and varied, with both positive and negative impacts on the environment.
Challenges to Scientific Consensus
The scientific community is not immune to conformity and resistance to new ideas. The growing influence of funding structures, the emphasis on grant money, and the erosion of tenure protections have led to a cultural shift that favors conformity and limits intellectual risks. This has hindered the exploration of disruptive ideas and the ability to challenge prevailing scientific consensus. Maintaining a safe space for unconventional ideas and encouraging open discourse is crucial for scientific progress.
The need for parallel institutions
In the podcast, the speaker discusses the changing landscape of scientific research and the need for parallel institutions to universities. The speaker argues that universities have become bureaucratic and focused on funding, leading to a loss of autonomy and independent thought in research. Instead, the speaker suggests creating smaller independent entities where scientists are in control of their own research and are driven by their own values and interests.
The value of diversity and freedom in research
The podcast highlights the importance of diversity and freedom in scientific research. Currently, government funding dominates research priorities, limiting the diversity of perspectives and leading to biased outcomes. The speaker emphasizes the need for diverse sources of funding, such as private donations, to foster a diverse and free market of ideas. This allows for a broader range of perspectives and promotes independent intellectual advice. By valuing diversity and honesty, scientists can provide a more comprehensive understanding of complex issues and contribute to more informed decision-making.
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Dr. J. Scott Turner is a physiologist who has contributed extensively to our understanding of collective intelligence through his work on the behavior of mound building termites. Early in his career he realized that the the textbook explanation for the mounds - that they contributed to temperature regulation of the underlying colony - were woefully incomplete. Through his work, Turner was able to demonstrate that the mounds were actually an integral part of the physiological success of the termites - rather than being a temperature regulating mechanism, the mounds acted as an external lung that was built and maintained by the colony for the express purposes of air filtration and circulation. Downstream of this realization, Turner developed a theory that suggests Darwinism alone - in context of survival of the fittest as the sole driver of the diversity of life - was an incomplete representation of the dynamics of life. We talk about the details of how to rewrite Darwin with a greater emphasis on epigenetics, collective intelligence, and the innate drive of purpose that is particular to life.
(00:00:00)
Go!
(00:00:17)
The man behind the termites
(00:01:44)
Remaining mysteries of evolutionary theory
(00:06:01)
When things don't add up
(00:12:47)
The ingenuity of termite mounds
(00:25:11)
Biology as a PID controller
(00:29:56)
Desire can't emerge from genes alone
(00:35:54)
Origins of Life
(00:38:09)
Origin of Life vs Origin of Cells
(00:43:31)
The struggle to exist is an inherent part of life
(00:49:36)
Crystal structure of life
(00:57:29)
Organisms are defined through communion & community
(01:16:21)
Our function in the superorganism
(01:23:19)
A teleology of life?
(01:28:50)
Recursive degradation of information
(01:38:43)
Purpose and desire as fundamental grounds of biology
(01:57:39)
Searching for gold on the fringe
(02:07:28)
The endless churn of ideas
(02:20:19)
Stand ins for superstitious forces
(02:29:01)
Willful intelligence of superorganisms
(02:32:18)
Tuning the algorithm that turns rocks into life
(02:36:50)
Closing thoughts
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PODCAST INFO: Anastasia completed her PhD studying bioelectricity at Columbia University. When not talking to brilliant people or making movies, she spends her time painting, reading, and guiding backcountry excursions. Shilo also did his PhD at Columbia studying the elastic properties of molecular water. When he's not in the film studio, he's exploring sound in music. They are both freelance professors at various universities.
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