What If School Worked Like a Video Game? Nolan Bushnell and Dr. Leah Hanes of ExoDexa Explain

Dec 29, 2025

Nolan Bushnell, the father of the video game industry and founder of Atari, teams up with Dr. Leah Haynes, CEO of Exodexa and advocate for game-based learning. They explore how traditional schooling fails diverse learners and why game design principles can enhance education. Topics include the potential of AI for personalized learning, the drawbacks of academic gamification, and the impact of homeschooling on innovation. They envision a perfect school day filled with AI tutors, physical activity, and student-led projects for deeper engagement.

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INSIGHT

Games Enable Flow-Based Learning

Games teach flow and can make learning addictive by balancing challenge and skill.
Nolan argues schools haven't kept pace with technology and must change to stay relevant.

INSIGHT

Learning By Doing Boosts Retention

Doing leads to much higher retention than passive reading, with project-based learning improving memory retention dramatically.
Leah pairs game play with making and physical activity to deepen understanding and retention.

ADVICE

Use AI To Time Instruction Precisely

Use AI to present information at the exact right moment for each learner to accelerate progress.
Nolan highlights that adaptive timing at scale is now possible because of rapid AI advances.

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Nolan Bushnell is the founder of Atari and Chuck E. Cheese and is widely known as the father of the video game industry. Dr. Leah Hanes is the CEO of ExoDexa, co-author of the ExoDexa Manifesto, and leads the Two Bit Circus Foundation, where she has impacted over 460,000 students through game-based and project-based learning.

💡 5 Things You’ll Learn in This Episode:

Why traditional schooling fails students who don’t learn at the “right” pace
How game design principles like flow and mastery can transform learning
The role AI can play in personalized, no-grades education
Why gamification efforts led by academics often fall short
What a “perfect school day” could look like in an AI-driven future

✨ Episode Highlights:
[00:03:00] Nolan Bushnell on the throughline from Atari to education reform
[00:05:10] Dr. Leah Hanes on why learning by doing leads to deeper retention
[00:07:52] How AI enables true individualized learning inside ExoDexa
[00:12:16] Nolan on eliminating grades and batch-processing in education
[00:16:58] Why homeschoolers may lead the next wave of education innovation
[00:21:33] The science of “flow” and what makes learning feel addictive
[00:27:51] Leah’s vision for AI tutors, physical activity, and student agency
[00:29:30] Nolan’s radical take on VR, exercise, naps, and brain science in school

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