How to Win an Information War with Peter Pomerantsev
Oct 31, 2024
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In this captivating discussion, Peter Pomerantsev, a disinformation expert and author, delves into his latest work on information warfare. He shares insights from his research on Sefton Delmer, a journalist who crafted unique methods to combat Nazi propaganda. The conversation spans Pomerantsev's experiences in Russia's media landscape, the psychology behind propaganda, and the use of emotional manipulation in wartime communications. He emphasizes the importance of fostering community and independent thought to resist oppressive narratives, drawing parallels to today's challenges.
Pomerantsev emphasizes the significance of emotional engagement in propaganda, showcasing Sefton Delmer's strategies to undermine Nazi narratives through humor and relatable content.
Applying Delmer's principles today, effective information campaigns should focus on community building and addressing emotional aspects of identity to counter populist rhetoric.
Deep dives
Peter Pomerantsev's Background and Motivation
Peter Pomerantsev shares his unique background in media, particularly his early experiences working in reality television in Russia during Putin's rise to power. He observed the intertwining of entertainment and authoritarianism, noting how disinformation and propaganda evolved in this context. His first book, "Nothing is True and Everything is Possible," explores this complex reality, reflecting on how societies can shift towards authoritarianism amidst disinformation. Pomerantsev's insights are informed by his firsthand experiences, which ultimately motivate his ongoing work in media and academia.
Sefton Delmer and Propaganda Strategies
Sefton Delmer, a key figure discussed, led Britain's covert operations to counter Nazi propaganda during World War II. He understood that traditional messages of truth and democracy would fail to resonate with those immersed in fascist ideologies. Instead, Delmer focused on creating content that appealed to the emotional landscape of German citizens, including using humor and less restrained language to subvert Nazi narratives. His methods demonstrated a strategic shift, recognizing that effective propaganda must engage with the audience’s feelings and identity.
Emotional Appeal in Media
Delmer's strategies revolved around understanding and harnessing strong emotions to undermine Nazi propaganda. He aimed to break the Nazis' monopoly over emotional messaging by filling media with vivid, often shocking content designed to resonate deeply with listeners. By introducing themes like debauchery and personal grievances against Nazi officials, Delmer's broadcasts created a safe space for discontent, which allowed listeners to express and reinterpret their frustrations. His approach highlighted the need for emotional engagement in propaganda, demonstrating that successfully reaching an audience requires both creativity and a nuanced understanding of their psyche.
Lessons for Modern Propaganda Efforts
Applying Delmer's principles to contemporary challenges, Pomerantsev suggests that effective information campaigns should focus on emotional intensity and community building. In today's democratic societies, there is an opportunity to deliver compelling narratives that contrast with populist rhetoric, utilizing the emotional aspects of identity and belonging. This involves creating engaging media that addresses daily concerns and offers relatable content, aimed at fostering a sense of connection and empowerment among individuals. By leveraging emotional resonance, modern efforts can counteract propaganda and establish compelling, constructive dialogues within society.
In this special bonus episode, Dave interviews author Peter Pomerantsev about his new book "How to Win an Information War: The Propagandist Who Outwitted Hitler." The book explores the work of Sefton Delmer, a journalist who developed unique ways to destabilize Hitler's propaganda programming. Their conversation was recorded on October 28, 2024, at Bird In Hand Books in Baltimore, Maryland.
Pomerantsev is the author of two other books on disinformation and propaganda, "Nothing Is True and Everything is Possible," and "This Is Not Propaganda." He is currently based at the SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University.
Pomerantsev also delivered a TED Talk at TEDxMidAtlantic in Washington, D.C. in June 2024.