Barnaby Joyce's sudden elevation to deputy prime minister has put a significant obstacle in the way of Scott Morrison's creep this year to a commitment to a net zero 2050 target. More generally, it has made internal Coalition relations more unpredictable.

In this podcast Joyce reiterates his opposition to embracing the target, while leaving some wriggle room. "With the information that I've got at the moment, it's not on [...] And that's because there is no information."

"What we know at the moment is that there is no list of 'these are the costs to people in regional Australia'." Still, he says, it's not a binary choice. And he stresses that the final decision on the Nationals' stance will be taken in its party room, although he wouldn't expect a formal vote.

Pressed about his controversial dropping of the resources portfolio from cabinet to the outer ministry in his reshuffle, Joyce redefines "cabinet", saying resources is "still in cabinet, even if it is in the outer cabinet".

On the proposal for a coal-fired power station at Collinsville in Queensland – which most observers do not believe will get off the ground – Joyce says he would have "no objections" to the government underwriting the project, but he'd want to see the details before being more positive. "I'm very consistent in the approach I take, which is before you want me to underwrite what you're doing, let me have a look at what it costs and then I'll decide."

Asked about his future if the Coalition wins the election, Joyce says he would intend to stay the full term as leader – but he is also "quite open" to transitioning the party. "I'm not going to hang around like Sir Earle Page [leader of the Country party 1921-39]".

Meanwhile he wants to grow the number of Nationals seats at the election, not just hold onto current ones. He says his eyes are on Lingiari (NT), opportunities in NSW's Hunter Valley and Senate positions.

Scripting the Change: Gagging People's Culture