Julian Clary, Antonio Pappano, Booker Prize shortlist

The role of Norman, the longsuffering, waspish eponymous dresser in Ronald Harwood's 1980 play, might have been written for Julian Clary. It's about a touring theatre company bringing Shakespeare to the provinces during the Blitz. As all the young actors are away fighting it's a motley crew, led by Sir, a monstrous yet pathetic veteran actor. Sir's mind and his world are crumbling. Only Norman can cajole him onto the stage. Now Julian Clary is playing Norman, in a touring theatre company, during a pandemic. He talks to Kirsty Lang about Norman, his relationship with Sir, and how, now we know more about dementia, this play, considered the best ever about theatre itself, is more pertinent than ever.

This week, the Royal Opera House opened to a full capacity audience for the first time since March 2020, with Sir Antonio Pappano picking up the baton in the pit. He tells Kirsty how good it felt to be back, why it’s taken so long for him to conduct Verdi’s popular masterpiece, and why he’s jealous of his continental counterparts.

And on the day that the Booker Prize shortlist is announced, we’re joined live in the studio by Horatia Harrod, member of the judging panel and an editor at The Financial Times Weekend, to discuss the six novels in the running for this year's £50,000 award.

Presenter: Kirsty Lang Producer: Oliver Jones