Justification: A Foundational Doctrine - A Conversation with Mark Olson

Dr. Mark Olson is the author of a new book called "John Wesley’s Doctrine of Justification," which is an excellent resource, rich in theology and history. This conversation is broadly a reconstruction of a lot of the mechanics of how Wesleyan theology works, helping to flesh out what important aspects of this foundational theology need to be claimed in the moment.

Dr. Olson's Website - www.wesleyscholar.com

Dr. Olson's Book - https://a.co/d/7ZF4A9W

Dr. Olson's Bio

Dr. Mark K. Olson grew up in the Pacific Northwest and served in pastorates at Vancouver, WA, and Antioch, CA. He and Ruth have five children and twelve grandchildren.

Dr. Olson did his undergraduate work at Taylor University, obtained a Master of Divinity at Nazarene Theological Seminary, and earned a Doctorate in Theology at the University of Manchester, UK. Since 2012 Dr. Olson teaches on bible, theology, and philosophy at Indiana Wesleyan University, Nazarene Bible College, and West Africa Theological Seminary. He also writes courses in historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Olson also serves as research assistant for the Manchester Wesley Research Centre (UK) and as a teaching fellow for One Mission Society (onemissionsociety.org).

Summary composed by Zoom's AI Companion: 

Understanding Justification in Christianity

Jeffrey and Mark discussed the importance of understanding the concept of justification in Christianity. Jeffrey shared his understanding of justification, likening it to a courtroom scenario where a guilty person is pardoned by a perfect judge who pays the price for their crimes. mark agreed with this definition and emphasized its significance in the Evangelical church. They both agreed that understanding justification correctly is crucial for Christians, as it helps them comprehend their relationship with God and the consequences of their sins. They also touched on the practicality of this concept, with Mark suggesting that it can guide Christians in their daily lives and interactions with others.

Methodist Theology and Justification Discussion

Mark and Jeffrey discussed the theological perspectives of John Wesley and the Methodist Church on the concept of justification and atonement. They explored the differences between Calvinist and Arminian views, with Mark emphasizing John Wesley's belief in the general atonement of Christ and the importance of good works in demonstrating genuine faith. Jeffrey clarified the Arminian understanding of justification, emphasizing that it involves God's forgiveness of sins, acceptance in Christ, and the possibility of living an abundant life through serving Jesus. They also touched on the global Methodist Church's ongoing conversation about the nature of holiness.

Christian Perfection and Historical Context

Mark and Jeffrey discussed the concept of Christian perfection, its historical context, and its evolution over time. They agreed that Christian perfection refers to a state of wholehearted love and devotion to God, where believers overcome voluntary sins but may still experience involuntary shortcomings. They also discussed the differences in understanding Christian experience and human nature between John Wesley's time and the present day, emphasizing the importance of understanding these differences to better comprehend the original audience's beliefs. Mark highlighted the influence of cultural and psychological factors on the interpretation of Christian experience, while Jeffrey stressed the need for a corrective to modern-day Western presuppositions. They concluded that while there are differences in understanding between then and now, it is essential to understand the original audience's beliefs and context.

Wesley's Theological Concepts and Atonement

Jeffrey and Mark discussed the theological concepts of penal substitutionary atonement and double justification in the context of John Wesley's teachings. They agreed that John Wesley, an Anglican, believed in the penal substitutionary theory of atonement, which was the dominant theory among Protestant denominations at the time. However, they also noted that Wesley interpreted this theory differently from high Calvinists, emphasizing that Jesus' death was for the general salvation of all people, not just the elect. They also discussed the concept of double justification, where the subjective experience of the blood of Christ being applied to one's heart is followed by an objective, final public pronouncement of one's eternal state at the final judgment. They emphasized the importance of living a holy life and the need for continuous growth in holiness to maintain a right relationship with God.

Wesley's Beliefs on Infant Baptism

Jeffrey and Mark discussed John Wesley's beliefs on infant baptism and baptismal regeneration. Mark explained that Wesley believed infants baptized receive initial justification from the guilt of original sin and are regenerated. However, as they grow up, they lose this salvation due to voluntary sinning. Wesley did not believe that the guilt of original sin alone would send someone to hell. They also discussed the importance of core convictions in being a Methodist or Wesleyan, such as original sin, justification, and holiness of heart and life. Jeffrey questioned the significance of infant baptism in Wesley's core theology, to which Mark responded that it was not a core principle.

Theological Perspectives on Salvation

Mark and Jeffrey discuss the order and process of salvation from different theological perspectives. Mark emphasizes that God ultimately wants a relationship with each person, though the journey may look different for individuals. He believes God is sovereign and infinite, working in people's lives to bring them to salvation and sanctification. Jeffrey raises concerns about the Arminian view of God having desires that can be denied, preferring the Calvinist view of God's self-sufficiency. However, they find common ground in God's faithfulness and personal involvement in people's lives despite his transcendence. They acknowledge the tension between God's sovereignty and human free will, seeking a synthesis beyond the Arminian-Calvinist divide.

Strengthening Original Sin Doctrine

Jeffrey and Mark discussed the need for a stronger doctrine of original sin and justification within the Methodist and Wesleyan traditions. Mark expressed concern about the church's weakness and compromise with culture, attributing this to a weak doctrine of original sin. He emphasized the importance of recognizing one's badness and the unmerited nature of God's grace. Mark also highlighted the need for the church to stand separate from the world and to have a prophetic voice in culture. Jeffrey agreed with Mark's points and concluded the discussion by encouraging reflection on the church's teachings and practices.

Wesley's Theology and Justification Discussed

In the conversation, Mark discussed his book on John Wesley's theology, particularly his views on justification. He outlined the book's structure, covering the historical background, Wesley's life, his understanding of justification, and his views on baptism for infants. Mark also touched on Wesley's concept of degrees of justification and his inclusivism, which suggests that God's grace can reach out to people who have never heard the gospel. Jeffrey expressed his concerns about the potential implications of these views and appreciated Mark's work. They ended the conversation with a prayer.

Get full access to PlainSpoken at plainspokenpod.substack.com/subscribe