This week, host Karen Han talks to sommelier Miguel de Leon, who currently works as the wine director for Pinch Chinese in New York City. In the interview, Miguel explains that his job is less about defining obscure tasting notes and more about curating experiences and telling stories. He also talks about the exclusionary nature of the wine world and his efforts to make that world more accessible to everyone.

After the interview, Karen and co-host Isaac Butler discuss how to be more welcoming to newcomers in creative fields. They also talk about how expensive art can be, both to make and to experience.

In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, Miguel talks about some specific wines that he’s excited about.

Send your questions about creativity and any other feedback to working@slate.com or give us a call at (304) 933-9675.

Podcast production by Cameron Drews.

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