Deep Future Six: On Metamodernism (with Brendan Graham Dempsey and Tomas Björkman)
Nov 29, 2023
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Brendan Graham Dempsey, writer, poet, and farmer, along with Tomas Björkman, entrepreneur and financier, discuss the transition from postmodernism to metamodernism. They explore topics such as systems theory, integrating insights from postmodernism, the postmodern volitional move, understanding the postmodern individual, and the complexities of metamodernism. They also touch on the relationship between metamodernism and capitalism and how to navigate that relationship in the current economic system.
Metamodernism builds on postmodernism, embracing paradox and contradiction while recognizing the interplay of different cultural logics over time.
Systems thinking and postmodernism challenge reductionist thinking by emphasizing the interconnectedness and complexity of reality.
Metamodernism incorporates systems principles to explore a deeper understanding of reality and navigate the limitations of individual perspectives.
The podcast explores the tension of engaging with capitalism while striving for systemic change, highlighting the need to balance personal livelihood and transformative work.
Deep dives
Postmodernism and the Need to Integrate
Postmodernism offers valuable critiques of modernity, emphasizing the importance of context and relationality. It corrects the assumption of objectivity and highlights the role of subjectivity. Postmodern criticisms help uncover missing aspects in modern thought and promote a more nuanced understanding of truth. The application of modern empirical critiques to postmodernism itself leads to a deeper understanding of truth and objectivity.
Systems Thinking and Postmodernism
Systems thinking and postmodernism share common themes, such as the recognition of the social and cultural context that influences scientific perspectives. Postmodernism highlights that all scientific endeavors are socially constructed and have power dimensions. Systems thinking focuses on understanding the dynamics of living systems and their emergent properties. Both perspectives challenge reductionist and deterministic thinking, emphasizing the interconnectedness and complexity of reality.
The Emergence of Metamodernism
Metamodernism can be seen as an evolutionary step beyond postmodernism. It builds on the positive aspects of postmodernism while transcending its limitations. Metamodernism employs a recursive and iterative self-reflection process, embracing paradox and contradiction. It takes a systems approach, recognizing the interplay of different cultural logics and their development over time. Metamodernism seeks to move beyond the relativism of postmodernism, integrating multiple perspectives and generating a new cultural logic.
Systems Thinking in Metamodernism
Metamodernism incorporates systems thinking by recognizing the complex dynamics at play in various emergent levels of reality. It captures the recursive nature of systems and the interconnections between different levels of organization. Metamodernism goes beyond postmodern relativism to explore a deeper understanding of reality through the application of systems principles. It acknowledges the limitations of individual perspectives and strives to navigate and integrate multiple perspectives to make sense of the world.
Navigating the Metamodern World
In this podcast episode, the speakers explore the challenges of navigating the metamodern world while living within the confines of the current capitalist system. They discuss the tension between distancing oneself from the system and actively participating in it. The speakers emphasize the need for awareness of the system's dynamics and effects while also recognizing the individual's need to sustain their livelihood. They acknowledge that there is no one-size-fits-all solution and that each person's approach will vary depending on their personal philosophy, values, and life circumstances. The conversation highlights the importance of finding a balance between engaging with capitalism while also working towards systemic change and transformation.
The Value of Awareness and Conscious Navigation
The speakers underscore the significance of being aware of the capitalist system's social construction, recognizing that it is not an inherent or unchangeable structure. They emphasize the need for a deep systemic change and an understanding that the current system is not fixed or divinely ordained. While acknowledging the challenges of living within the system, they encourage individuals to navigate it consciously, with a greater understanding of the world through metamodern perspectives. They discuss the importance of finding individual ways to cope with the demands of the system while simultaneously striving for meaningful work and personal fulfillment.
Balancing Ethics and Pragmatism
The conversation delves into the dilemma of finding a balance between maintaining personal ethics and pragmatically sustaining oneself within the capitalist system. The speakers highlight the complexities of making a living in a world that often undermines metamodern values. They explore possible approaches, such as finding an ethical nine-to-five job that allows individuals the freedom to engage in transformative work outside of their regular employment. They emphasize the need to remain aware of the system's influence while considering an individual's unique circumstances and personal priorities. They also emphasize that there is no single metamodern answer to navigating capitalism, and each person must make their own choices based on their values and life situation.
On the transition from the postmodern to the metamodern worldview,
Brendans new book Metamodernism: Or, The Cultural Logic of Cultural
Logics, the relationsship between MM and systems-theory and how to deal
with money/capitalism in a metamodern way.
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Brendan Graham Dempsey is a writer, poet, farmer, and the director of
Sky Meadow Institute, an organization dedicated to promoting
systems-based thinking about the things that matter most.
He holds a BA in religious studies from the University of Vermont and a
master's in religion and art from Yale University. He is the author of
the 7-volume Metamodern Spirituality Series and, most recently,
Metamodernism: Or, The Cultural Logic of Cultural Logics. His primary
interests include theorizing developments in culture after
postmodernism, productively bridging the divide between science and
spirituality, and developing sustainable systems for life to flourish.
All of these lead through the paradigms of emergence and complexity,
which inform all of his work.
Tomas Björkman is an entrepreneur and financier, and has over the past
25 years built innovative international companies in the areas of
banking and real estate. His entrepreneurship combined with a keen
interest in both society and science led to the creation of the the
Ekskäret Foundation in 2008.
Tomas himself describes in the forewords of the book ‘Changing the world
we create’ why he started and is still very involved in foundation:
“In my twenties, I had the choice between an academic career in
theoretical physics or the world of commerce. I chose the latter and
spent twenty-five years in business. Eventually, I sold my company to
one of Switzerland’s larger banks continuing for a time to serve on its
board. But the call of the world of ideas was irresistible.
My background in theoretical physics and as an entrepreneur in
information technology, investment banking and property development had
allowed me to learn about and view our existence from both theoretical
and empirical perspectives. My personal drive increasingly became to
unlock the hidden structures of the world around me. I sought to bridge
many academic fields including cognitive neuroscience, developmental
psychology and sociology. I started searching for connections that form
the evolving whole.
This curiosity led me to spend a decade researching and writing “The
World We Create”. I also established the Ekskäret Foundation to
facilitate the co-creation of a more conscious society.
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