Guest Host Iza Ding with Deborah Seligsohn: Inside COP30 in Belem, Brazil, and China's Climate Leadership

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Dec 10, 2025

In this discussion, Deborah Seligsohn, an expert in climate diplomacy and former U.S. Embassy official in Beijing, shares insights on China's role at COP30. She highlights China's impressive technology leadership contrasted by its reluctance to take the lead in negotiations. Deborah reveals the dynamics of U.S.-China relations at the conference and the significance of the real-time air quality monitor installed by the U.S. Embassy. She also sheds light on how Brazil's inclusive approach and rapid agenda creation made COP30 a unique experience.

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INSIGHT

Brazil's Inclusive, Well-Run COP

Brazil ran an unusually inclusive COP with strong green-zone public engagement and efficient agenda management.
Deborah Seligsohn credits Brazil's presidential team with brisk parliamentary skill that kept negotiations moving.

INSIGHT

China Leads Tech, Not Treaty Text

China focuses on technological and implementation leadership rather than driving negotiation text.
Seligsohn says China prefers being a team player and example-setter, not the creative negotiator.

ADVICE

Enable Local EV Production

Do invest in local manufacturing and affordable EVs to accelerate adoption in developing countries.
Seligsohn points to BYD's Brazil production and low-cost EVs as a model for scaling clean transport.

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This week on Sinica, I'm delighted to have Iza Ding as guest host. Iza is a professor of political science at Northwestern University and a good friend whose work on Chinese governance I greatly admire. She's joined by Deborah Seligsohn, who has been a favorite guest on this show many times. Deb is an associate professor of political science at Villanova University and was previously a science and environmental counselor at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing. This episode was recorded in three parts: the first two in Belém, Brazil during COP30 (the 30th UN Climate Change Conference), and the final segment after the conference concluded. Iza and Deb discuss China's role at the climate summit, the real story behind the famous 2007 U.S. Embassy air quality monitor in Beijing (spoiler: it wasn't China's "Silent Spring moment"), Brazil's management of the conference, why China leads on technology but not on negotiation, and what the outcomes of COP30 mean for the future of global climate cooperation. This is an insider's view of how climate diplomacy actually works, complete with unexpected fire evacuations and glut-shaming of The New York Times.

3:43 – Deb's impressions of COP30 and Brazil's inclusive approach

9:21 – China's presence at COP30: technology leadership without negotiation leadership

15:34 – Xie Zhenhua's absence and the U.S.-China dynamic at previous COPs

24:46 – Inside the negotiation rooms: language, politeness, and obstruction

33:06 – BYD's presence in Brazil and Chinese EV expansion 40:54 – The real story of the 2007 U.S. Embassy air quality monitor in Beijing

45:00 – Fire evacuation at COP30 and UN territorial sovereignty

1:22:06 – What actually drove China's air pollution control: the 2003 power plant standards

1:41:27 – The dramatic final plenary and the Mutirão decision

1:55:17 – China's NDC 3.0: under-promise and over-deliver strategy

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