Zena Hitz, a philosopher and tutor at St. John’s College, passionately discusses her love for the Great Books and their impact on personal growth. She shares insights on Shakespeare’s complex relationships, emphasizing how age alters our understanding of his themes. Zena advocates for the value of direct engagement with literature over secondary sources. The conversation also touches on the nostalgic magic of children’s literature, her reflections on immersive education, and the hidden virtues of nuns in society.
The speaker's initial engagement with Shakespeare through 'Macbeth' illustrates a profound journey from youthful admiration to a mature understanding of literary complexities.
The dynamic relationship between Macbeth and Lady Macbeth reveals the complex interplay of vulnerability and ambition, challenging traditional notions of dominance within their partnership.
The Katherine Project highlights a growing societal desire for communal learning experiences in classic literature, underscoring the need for deeper engagement with great texts.
Deep dives
Early Encounters with Shakespeare
The discussion highlights the speaker's first engagement with Shakespeare through reading 'Macbeth' in high school. At the age of 14, the speaker memorized a particularly intense Lady Macbeth speech, illustrating a deep connection to the character despite disliking the course at the time. This early experience with Shakespeare led to a lifelong appreciation for the drama's darker themes, which now evoke a sense of terror and introspection. This evolution reflects a broader journey from youthful admiration to a mature understanding of the complexities within Shakespeare's works.
The Duality of Macbeth and Lady Macbeth
The dialogue examines the intricate dynamics between Macbeth and Lady Macbeth, suggesting that both characters share moments of vulnerability and manipulation. The speaker disputes the notion of one being an instigator over the other, emphasizing their mutual hesitance and the oscillation of dominance in their relationship. This exploration raises questions about the nature of ambition and moral decay, spotlighting the terrifying realization that neither character fully understands their influence on one another. The conversation portrays their sinister partnership as a complex interplay rather than a simple hierarchy of power.
The Evolution of Comedic Appreciation
Throughout the conversation, the speaker reflects on an evolving appreciation for Shakespeare's comedies, linking their previously narrow views on tragedy to a growing recognition of the darker undertones within comedic narratives. Initially dismissing comedies as mere entertainment, the speaker now acknowledges deeper emotional layers and complexities present in these works. The character of Rosalind is highlighted as a significant figure that exemplifies the wit and transformative power found in comedic storytelling. This shift signifies not just a personal change, but also a wider contestation of the values placed on different genres within literature.
Importance of the Western Canon
The conversation delves into the significance of the Western canon, framing it as a foundational treasury for education and personal growth. The speaker argues that engaging with these works enables individuals to derive meaning and insights that resonate throughout their lives, reshaping their worldviews. The idea that the Western canon offers a treasure trove of human experience, reflecting both the absurdity and depth of life, is emphasized. This discourse not only reiterates the relevance of works like Shakespeare but also suggests a universal applicability that transcends cultural boundaries.
Community and the Katherine Project
The establishment of the Katherine Project is discussed as a response to increasing interest in classic literature and a longing for communal learning experiences. The speaker notes a surprising demand for such programs, indicating a vibrant desire for deeper engagement with great texts among adults. While acknowledging the limitations of online education, they emphasize the transformative nature of immersive learning experiences that can cultivate a lasting connection with literature. The conversation encourages readers and lifelong learners to pursue organized discussions and readings, further underscoring the societal craving for enriching literary exploration.
I’ve been a big Zena Hitz fan since I read Lost in Thought in 2020, a book I am still recommending to people nearly five years later. We talked about Shakespeare, children’s books, St John’s College, the Catherine Project, whether you should read secondary literature, Tolkien, nuns, and we had a giggle while we did so. Zena is one of the best public intellectuals who remains deeply committed to reading the Great Books and I was very pleased to record this conversation with her.
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