The Fluent Mind ESL Podcast The Jack & Chill Podcast | Grief
In this episode of The Jack & Chill Podcast, Jack and Xochitl talk about their experiences with loss and the grief that goes along with those experiences.
Transcript:
00:00:00
Xochitl
You are listening to the Jack and Chill podcast Jack. Today we have a little bit of a heavy topic brief Jack.
00:00:20
Xochitl
Your experiences with grief and how would you define it for our listeners?
00:00:24
발표자
OK.
00:00:25
Jack
Yeah. So grief is A is a a tough topic and for our listeners out there, grief is the emotion that you feel when.
00:00:33
Jack
Someone that you you loved, a loved one passes away or or dies.
00:00:39
Jack
And for me, I I never really experienced it.
00:00:47
Jack
I I I didn't experience it for a long time because when I was born my 2 two of my grandparents were had already passed away or passed away when I was a baby. So you I just grew up never knowing my my grandfather on my father's side.
00:01:07
Jack
And I grew up not knowing my grandmother on my mother's side and my grandfather on my mother's side was alive. But we we weren't really in contact with him. He was an abusive alcohol.
00:01:22
Jack
Alec and so growing up, there was a lot of.
00:01:29
Jack
Stress in my my mother's family because of my grandfather's drinking and and when he was when I was in middle or sorry, elementary school, maybe fifth grade during summer camp, my grandfather passed away in a nursing home and my parents.
00:01:49
Jack
Ask me, you know, do you want to go to the funeral?
00:01:52
Jack
We'll come pick you.
00:01:52
Jack
Up or you can just stay at camp and.
00:01:57
Jack
I just stayed at camp and I I really felt nothing. I, I I remember meeting him one time in the nursing home and it was just scary, you know, because it was all all these.
00:02:10
Jack
Elderly, sick people, very thin and.
00:02:15
Jack
I he I just. I didn't have any relationship with him at all. So I I really only had my my father's mother, my grandmother, and my father my father's side.
00:02:28
Jack
And she we called her Bubba. Uh and Bubba was the best. You know? She really.
00:02:39
Jack
Filled in for all the for the other three grandparents that didn't have I I wouldn't trade, you know, four grandparents for for one, Bubba and yeah, ever. Because she was amazing. And and she lived to be 92 years old.
00:02:57
Jack
And so she passed. Maybe in, like, 2009. I think if I'm not mistaken, somewhere around there. Uh, my daughter was just a baby at the time and.
00:03:10
Jack
And I I felt.
00:03:11
Jack
Very, very sad, obviously because it's it's hard when you lose someone that you.
00:03:18
Jack
Of but I also, on the other hand, she lived to be 92 years old, like she lived a very full life, a very long life. Yeah, I grew up in the Great Depression in America, in on a farm in South Dakota. So she was tough, you know.
00:03:27
Xochitl
Right.
00:03:38
Jack
Tough as nails like there is no, she didn't. She wasn't a, you know, delicate person. You know, she grew up in the hard times in America and she.
00:03:55
Jack
Married my my grandfather, who was a a mechanic in the military. He served in Panama building of the Panama Canal during World War 2. So, you know, it was there just just that famous, you know, kind of story.
00:04:15
Jack
1950s, they had their children. They grew up in the 50s and 60s. My my father was in elementary school in the 50s and then high school and university in the 60s and early 70s.
00:04:29
Jack
And so that was my first experience with with grief. But in the last three about three years ago, my one of my very, very close friends, I probably I have a best friend from high school and a best friend from college.
00:04:48
Jack
And my best friend from college passed away, and that was.
00:04:57
Jack
You know it's.
00:05:00
Jack
He he was young, you know. I mean, not not. Maybe not not, you know, not not like in his 20s. He was in his his 40s but.
00:05:10
Xochitl
That's young to pass. That's very young to pass.
00:05:11
Jack
Yeah, that's that's very young to pass. And and that was that one.
00:05:18
Jack
You know, stop me in my tracks. You know, it was. That was a very, very difficult one to process and I think I'm, you know, still processing it and and probably will always be processing it in some way because.
00:05:36
Jack
It just leaves a a massive hole in your in your heart, in your life, where?
00:05:45
Jack
Something will happen and you, you you want that person's advice or you want to tell that person and you and you remember that they're not here and and you can't. You can't tell them and you'll never laugh together. You'll, you know you you won't. You're not going to share a moment again.
00:06:06
Jack
And everything you had with that person is everything you will ever have with that person. And that's a very here's an English expression for our listeners, a hard pill to swallow. You know, it's hard to accept that reality that.
00:06:23
Jack
This. That's it. You know, the time that you had is the time is the is the only time that you.
00:06:29
Jack
You get with that person and.
00:06:32
Jack
It just seems cruel, you know that an illness would.
00:06:40
Jack
UM.
00:06:42
Jack
Affect someone that young and and take them away from from from their family and from their friend?
00:06:48
Jack
And and and yeah, it just it just kind of.
00:06:55
Jack
I don't know what the word is like. I've it it it it it's it has like a dulling effect. Like it a a numbing effect. Yeah. It it leaves you kind of like.
00:07:08
Jack
It it could be dangerous because it can make you cynical, right? Like it can make you kind of angry at the world or angry at God or or or just kind of like, what's the point of of all this? Because.
00:07:24
Jack
Anyone that we love can just be torn away from us at any moment.
00:07:28
Jack
Or but but that's the the that's the anger stage of grief. I think you know where you're just you get angry and you you don't. You shouldn't stay. You don't want to stay in that mindset. You know, of of anger.
00:07:29
Xochitl
Right.
00:07:45
Jack
You want to move on to acceptance.
00:07:49
Jack
And appreciate and be happy and and blessed that you at least the time that you did have with that person be be lucky that you're able to have that time with that person, but it's hard to get to to that stage of grief. I think it it does take a lot of kind of its internal struggle within yourself.
00:08:10
Jack
It takes.
00:08:13
Jack
A more mature kind of.
00:08:17
Jack
Approach to life and understanding that wow, you know, like life is very delicate and it's not as nothing is guaranteed. And so it'll make you hug that your loved ones that are still here a.
00:08:32
Jack
Little bit harder.
00:08:34
Jack
And you know what I mean? Like, in, in that moment.
00:08:37
Jack
Now for example, I was in America recently and I got to see my daughter and even though she was embarrassed, I I I made sure to hug her and tell her I love her. When I said goodbye to her.
00:08:52
Jack
I I didn't care if if it embarrassed her friends or anything and she didn't care either because, you know, it's like that you you never, ever know. There are no guarantees in in life. And so those are that was my my take away from my experience with grief and.
00:09:12
Jack
How? How? How about you? Like how? How have you been dealing with with your experiences with grief?
00:09:20
Xochitl
Well, for our listeners, I think there is an important concept about the stages of grief in the United States. We call them like the five stages of grief and their denial, which is like kind of denying that it happened, glossing over it. You really don't feel any of those feelings you're kind of.
00:09:41
Xochitl
It's hard to process or even perceive that it really happened. Then there's anger, which is, of course, being angry about what happened or feeling like, you know, it was unfair. There's the bargaining stage, which is the stage where you're like, oh, it's only this had happened, maybe they wouldn't have passed. If only this had happened. If I had done this differently.
00:10:00
Xochitl
They had done this differently. If the doctors had done this differently.
00:10:03
Xochitl
And this all wouldn't have happened. And then there's a depression stage, which is kind of where your feelings get the best of you. And you're starting, you're in the midst of processing them. I feel like and.
00:10:15
Xochitl
You feel a.
00:10:16
Xochitl
Great sadness. It's hard to get out of bed. It's hard to do your daily tasks and the last stage is acceptance, which is what Jack was talking about, where you accept.
00:10:26
Xochitl
What has happened and you can maybe take some valuable lessons or, you know, move forward with.
00:10:33
Xochitl
A better understanding of what occurred.
00:10:36
Xochitl
I think it's hard for me because.
00:10:39
Xochitl
You can, uh. Contrary to popular belief, you can experience these in any order, and you can also experience the the cycle multiple times.
00:10:48
Xochitl
And for me, what I struggle with the most.
00:10:52
Xochitl
Is I.
00:10:56
Xochitl
And the kind of person that.
00:10:59
Xochitl
I don't think I process. I don't think I process my feelings because I see everyone else around me crying and stuff and I'm just standing there awkwardly and I do cry sometimes but it but not it's like I.
00:11:17
Xochitl
It's not like an in the moment thing like how I see everyone else going through stages in the moment. It's kind of like.
00:11:26
Xochitl
I feel like a third person watching everything happen. You know what I mean? I don't know if this resonates at all.
00:11:31
Jack
Yeah, there's a word for that. It's it's disassociation, right?
00:11:35
Xochitl
Yeah, I kind of disassociate. It's like you're. It's like watching a a life movie. But it's your life. But you're watching it as if it weren't your life, as if it's a movie or you're seeing it in the third.
00:11:48
Jack
Yeah, that that's a coping mechanism, I think.
00:11:51
Xochitl
Yeah, it is a coping mechanism. Yeah. And that's definitely how I. It's like a faulty. It's known as a faulty coping mechanism, which is like an unhealthy coping mechanism. And the only one that I experience a lot because.
00:12:04
Xochitl
Well, in Mexican tradition, there's a lot that.
00:12:09
Xochitl
Is different. I think different from us tradition and it was.
00:12:13
Xochitl
Things that were really hard for me to experience because it's my grandmother passing was the first time that I was actually here for someone in my family passing and it's the Mexican side. So we did everything the Mexican way and that means like, as she was.
00:12:27
Xochitl
Passing away, we were we all had to be in.
00:12:30
Xochitl
The room with her.
00:12:33
Xochitl
So we were watching our part. We were in the hospital with her non-stop. Pretty much. My mom slept there every single night in the ICU and the rest of us were there pretty much every single day and night at different varying times.
00:12:51
Xochitl
When they took out life.
00:12:52
Xochitl
Support with like watch her pass but it was very hard because.
00:12:56
Xochitl
Death isn't like the movies, where they're like, unconnected someone from life support, and they just, like, quietly pass like they're falling asleep.
00:12:57
발표자
OK.
00:13:05
Xochitl
It's not really what happens. I don't really need to serve any of our viewers, but like they people kind of gasp for breath, for breath, for a long time when they're unhooked from life support. Probably in my experience they can have an immediate collapse that does happen. But what happened with my grandmother is that she kept.
00:13:23
Xochitl
Gasping for air for a long time, but she wasn't like there. Mentally, like she couldn't speak. She didn't even know we were there. She didn't respond. Like if I.
00:13:31
Xochitl
Like waved my hand over her eyes to see she's like her eyes were clouded over, but it was like her body, her lungs still gasping for breath, and this went on for like.
00:13:42
Xochitl
I wanna say like 24 hours. Uhm, I wanna say and UM.
00:13:50
Xochitl
It was really hard and then you have to stay with the body overnight in Mexican tradition, so you can't, like, go home and you have to sleep in the hospital.
00:13:58
Xochitl
With the body or whatever.
00:14:01
Xochitl
UM, once a person has passed away, the body can't be alone the first night. So my aunt, my mom, my sister slept.
00:14:10
Xochitl
I went home because I was sick and I had already slept in the hospital. Like two nights I wanted to. Yeah, just like in, in a chair, because there wasn't any, like, beds or anything for us to sleep in. And I just couldn't take it anymore. I don't know how everyone else did it. I felt like sick, like, I could barely.
00:14:30
Xochitl
Function at that point.
00:14:31
Jack
Sure. And emotionally, you are just that, was it? You were.
00:14:37
Xochitl
Yeah, I couldn't do anymore. I sell exhausted, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. And I I don't know how other people push through. It's like I just couldn't do it. It had been days. It really been over a month since my aunt. I had a good night's sleep because my grandmother had been sick all the time, and we had been watching her and my sister and my mother flew in and.
00:14:57
Xochitl
They hadn't, really.
00:14:58
Xochitl
They had been resting up until that.
00:15:01
Xochitl
Point. So they really had.
00:15:03
Xochitl
To take over some stuff for us, but.
00:15:05
Xochitl
That was really hard part. And then the other.
00:15:07
Xochitl
Hard part was.
00:15:09
Xochitl
UM.
00:15:11
Xochitl
Once you know she passed and everything before the cremation like we had to see her body.
00:15:16
Xochitl
And that's still hard because people's bodies it changes once they pass, like their skin changes. It was like purple, and I won't go into details just, you know, scar our audience or anything. But it was very difficult and it was difficult for me because it's like my sister and my aunt. My mom were all.
00:15:37
Xochitl
Crying and I was just standing there like.
00:15:40
Xochitl
Disassociating I was humming a song that she really liked, that my grandmother really liked, that her favorite song I was like humming that, but I was checked out. I like was not there.
00:15:49
Xochitl
At all and it's.
00:15:50
Jack
Yeah, yeah.
00:15:51
Xochitl
Weird to see everyone like crying over the body and I was just like I was in outer space. I was not. I was not there and I was not crying.
00:16:01
Xochitl
And so I think it's weird how everyone processes grief differently, but I think you.
00:16:05
Xochitl
Can feel weird when.
00:16:07
Xochitl
Everyone else is kind of processing in a similar way, and you're like the odd one out.
00:16:12
Jack
Yeah, that is. I mean, I I really get upset when people judge the way.
00:16:19
Jack
People grieve because I I think I'm same as you. It's almost. It's almost like an overload, you know? Like the like. When the computer freezes.
00:16:32
Jack
You know, there's just. There's too much. And what happens is I just kind of have an out of body experience. Like, I just kind of float away and just say like, you know, no too much can't.
00:16:48
Jack
Can't deal with this and I'm going to I'm I'm going to go to another dimension for a little while and catch my breath.
00:17:00
Jack
And that can.
00:17:02
Jack
Kind of cold to people from the outside, you know, looking in as you, you're just standing there, but you're not crying. And you, you're you're you just look normal, quote UN quote normal. But inside you're you're you're just dealing with so much.
00:17:21
Jack
At one time that you just, you just kind of check out like you said and.
00:17:27
Jack
I I think.
00:17:29
Jack
Again I I.
00:17:30
Jack
Just think that's like a a self preservation kind of a thing. It's like, yeah, exactly. A coping mechanism. It's it's just, it's just the way your your brain is wired. It's like too many stressors in in one moment.
00:17:35
Xochitl
Coping mechanism.
00:17:49
Jack
And you just kind of free.
00:17:50
Jack
There's, you know, there's that that kind of fight flight or freeze. I don't know if if that applies here or not, but I think it it makes what you're describing makes perfect sense to me because I think I I process things the same way as you. But I think like when?
00:18:12
Jack
When those emotions settle down.
00:18:15
Jack
And you'll you'll have a moment where you will be able to process it in a more.
00:18:23
Jack
For lack of a better word, traditional way.
00:18:26
Xochitl
Right. Typical way maybe.
00:18:28
Jack
Yeah. And, you know, some people just don't like to cry in front of other people, you know? So when I, when I when finally the floodgates opened and I I wept, it was during my during the funeral, which was took place during COVID so.
00:18:47
Jack
The uh.
00:18:49
Jack
So. So the funeral was online, so I just remember just being alone in.
00:18:57
Jack
In my office, in my house and this is like 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. And I was just weeping.
00:19:06
Jack
And but it had taken me days to to get to that that stage where it finally hit, you know, kind of like a.
00:19:19
Jack
Like an arrow. Just boom I. It was. I was finally ready to start processing. But maybe you know the days prior to that.
00:19:32
Jack
It just seemed unreal. It's like, you know, the this is not. This is not really happening, you know it's it's it's the.
00:19:40
Jack
Kind of that kind of thing. And and I I just, I I don't I don't I I if there's one take away from our talk today about grief is I just think there's you know 6 billion people on the planet or 7 billion people and there's probably 7 billion different ways to grieve.
00:20:01
Jack
And I, and we shouldn't rush to judgment when people don't follow the, quote, UN quote, traditional methods of of weeping. I I think movies have really like, like you said, when you're describing the process.
00:20:18
Jack
Death in the movies, you know the the the person dying often just you know they've.
00:20:27
Jack
It's so romanticized, you know, they kind of, you know, brush their hair back and then close their eyes and and that's it, you know.
00:20:37
Jack
And that that's not the the dying process. I I was listening to an interview with the lead singer of U2 talking about his father's passing. And he he said, you know, dying is is as messy as being born.
00:20:59
Jack
You know, we we come into. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's it's not a it's it's he. That was what that was his take away from it because he had never experienced that but taking care of his father in his final days.
00:20:59
Xochitl
Yeah, just accurate.
00:21:11
Jack
He was very surprised at just how.
00:21:16
Jack
Messy and and ugly, the process can be.
00:21:21
Jack
And and it's so unlike.
00:21:24
Jack
You know, in the movies where it's just so you know you're you're here and then you're gone. But it's actually a process. Death is a a slow process sometimes. You know, it can be immediate, but it can also be drawn out. And. And I don't think we I think we we it's it's too.
00:21:45
Jack
It's too ugly a thing for us to to look at and and talk about.
00:21:52
Jack
I I think we.
00:21:54
Jack
We we don't want, we don't want to accept that as the reality, but I think anyone working in a hospital or Hospice.
00:22:03
Jack
You know people who are in the medical profession, they they understand this reality very well.
00:22:14
Xochitl
I agree with you and.
00:22:17
Xochitl
Wear some tickles or lessons that you feel like you gained.
00:22:23
Xochitl
After you, kind of.
00:22:26
Xochitl
After things settled down from someone's passing.
00:22:31
Jack
Yeah, I that's a good question. And I I wonder, you know if I.
00:22:36
Jack
I I don't know.
00:22:37
Jack
If I have any wisdom for for people, I think, well, here's something that I think is is helpful for.
00:22:45
Jack
For people, and I think that people should remember this when someone passes the.
00:22:54
Jack
I think the worst thing you can do.
00:22:59
Jack
Try to.
00:23:02
Jack
Provide some meaning to it for the persons.
00:23:04
Xochitl
That's true. That's true.
00:23:06
Jack
Which I which it.
00:23:07
Jack
It it sounds.
00:23:08
Jack
Counterintuitive, you know, because you think that if you, if you could just say the one profound thing.
00:23:14
Jack
To the person at the funeral.
00:23:16
Jack
Then they will feel better.
00:23:20
Jack
But it's it has nothing to do with it's. It's all about the person grieving. It's nothing to do with you. The friend of that person. The only the only appropriate response, I think, is to just grieve together and just, just just wrap your arms around that person.
00:23:41
Jack
Hug them and say I'm so sorry for your loss that that's it. There is nothing. There are no magic words that are going to take away the pain of of a lost one. So coming up and saying, you know, well, you know, he's with God now or she's with God now.
00:23:59
Xochitl
It's all part of God's plan and stuff like that. Everything happens for a reason. That's one of the worst ones.
00:24:01
Jack
Right. It's part, yeah.
00:24:04
Jack
It happened for a reason. Yeah. This because it doesn't. There's no reason for it. There's no. You know what I mean? It's not. There's no plan. There's no reason for it.
00:24:16
Jack
It's just a tragedy. It's just sad. And why is that not enough?
00:24:22
Jack
You know, I I think that should have to be enough for for us like.
00:24:28
Jack
It's it's just sad. It sucks.
00:24:32
Jack
And we're going to just sit in this, but you're not going to sit in it alone. I will sit in it with you. That's the best thing that you can do for someone who is grieving.
00:24:45
Jack
Don't offer any advice. Don't. Yeah. Don't talk about the God's plan or anything like that. Just say this sucks and and I'm going to be here. You're not going to go through this alone.
00:24:59
Jack
And I think that if people understood that.
00:25:04
Jack
A little bit better it it would. It would avoid a lot of those awkward.
00:25:09
Jack
Conversations you know at at where you know people are trying to provide some sort of reason or or.
00:25:17
Jack
You know.
00:25:19
Jack
Excuse for why this happened, it's it's just it just sucks. It's just a terrible, terrible tragedy, tragic situation and that has to be enough. And and there is no like resolution. There's no, there's no third act to this sort of.
00:25:39
Jack
In this sort of situation, it's just it's terrible and but I'm here for you any way you need me. That's why I think it's it's kind of beautiful when people kind of surround someone who has lost somebody and they cook a meal for them and deliver it.
00:25:55
Jack
You know.
00:25:56
Xochitl
Yeah, that's one thing that like for me and going through the screening process with like with my grandmother passing and being here for my mom and my aunts like more than saying something or whatever. I wish we I wish people there were more people who brought a meal.
00:26:16
Xochitl
Over offered to to bring a meal over, or offered to help. Uh, clean out some of my grandmother's belongings and, you know, offload some things.
00:26:27
Xochitl
And you know.
00:26:29
Xochitl
I just wish there were more people that tried to offer support in those ways because I think that's more.
00:26:36
Jack
Yeah, the words words are are almost meaningless in those situations. I and I hate to say it because it's. I know that people saying them are they think they're they're doing something.
00:26:48
Xochitl
For their well meaning.
00:26:50
Jack
They're well meaning but.
00:26:53
Jack
I I would say.
00:26:55
Jack
You know, I'm so sorry for your loss. Big hug. And how can I help you? What do you need? Because in those moments, the last thing you want to do is be cleaning your house or cooking meals and that sort of thing. And so those little gestures are actually much more meaningful than any words.
00:27:16
Jack
That you can say at a, at a funeral or awake or anything like that.
00:27:21
Xochitl
Yeah, because that's one of the big things we've been dealing with is like trying to cook.
00:27:26
Xochitl
And like wrap your heads around buying groceries and cooking. And even when we bought groceries, they like spoil because we were at the hospital all the time and.
00:27:36
Xochitl
It's just so hard to do those basic things. I think like those are really good things you can do to support.
00:27:45
Xochitl
People, when their loved one has passed away for sure.
00:27:49
Xochitl
Jack, how about? Ohh sorry, didn't you? I was just going to say. How about lessons you took?
00:27:51
Jack
Alright, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no.
00:27:57
Xochitl
From the people in your life that have passed on, you know sonned ways that you remember them and things you learned from them.
00:28:05
Jack
Yeah. Yeah, so.
00:28:07
Jack
I I think that.
00:28:11
Jack
Just thinking about my grandmother and her.
00:28:15
Jack
Her, her strength and her resolve, you know, just and also her.
00:28:22
Jack
Ability like her capacity to love was it's seemed limitless and she she she really was.
00:28:31
Jack
A. A kind.
00:28:34
Jack
Person you know and and yeah, we we use that word kind. I think it's overly used you know. But she was, you know she was truly a kind person.
00:28:45
Jack
UM and.
00:28:48
Jack
I I I really do.
00:28:53
Jack
I I really am so lucky that I had such a loving grandparent. I mean the this is a pretty big she was the, I mean she, she.
00:29:03
Jack
She was filling the the place of four grandparents with just the 11 grandparent. But you know, she was like a second mother, you know? It was just like we're going to Bubba's.
00:29:14
Jack
Was and she, you know, it was such such a traditional kind of grandmother, you know, she had chocolate chip cookies all the time. She baked pies. She, you know, she was an amazing cook. We would play board games at her house and.
00:29:30
Jack
It was just. It was.
00:29:32
Jack
Just so much fun. She was such a fun grandma.
00:29:34
Jack
And UM. Uh. Very uh.
00:29:40
Jack
Very, very loving and and and. And my friends. I mean, I could go on for days and days, but you know we he it's it's interesting like he he's a friend we we never had a.
00:29:59
Jack
Like a cross.
00:30:00
Jack
Moment or anything. Do you know what I mean? Like.
00:30:04
Jack
Yeah, it was. It was just.
00:30:07
Xochitl
You just clicked.
00:30:07
Jack
Yeah. We just clicked. We just clicked our our personalities, our sense of humor just aligned perfectly. He was very much like a like an older brother for me because he was a few years older than me. And and I I I wanted to be like him. He was.
00:30:27
Jack
And he was cool. And and I looked up to him and and he was a a confidante, you know, a person that I could tell.
00:30:39
Jack
Anything too. And I knew that he would, you know, keep it. You know he wouldn't, you know, gossip or anything like that. And it was just just a very trust, trusting person and and loved life well traveled.
00:31:00
Jack
Everybody got along with everybody. Yeah. I mean, he there's just no one that he couldn't get along with. Yeah, it it's just a. It's a huge, immense loss and.
00:31:14
Jack
I I I I I I'm so happy to have have known him. What about you? What? What what? What did you would you could you say you've taken away from your your grandparents?
00:31:28
Xochitl
I think one thing I learned, not directly to them, but after their passing was.
00:31:37
Xochitl
As much time there's not, there's never too much time spent with your loved ones because one day they might just not be there. And maybe sometimes we put it off for later, like Oh well, I'm, you know, I'm busy. I have this to do. So I I can't, you know, come see you or whatever and then.
00:31:57
Xochitl
You know, one day you don't even have that that option and.
00:32:02
Xochitl
It just makes you value the time that you have with with your loved ones. The times that you have with the people that you cherish that much more because you.
00:32:09
Xochitl
Realize it's not forever.
00:32:12
Jack
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:14
Xochitl
UM, yeah. And the big thing I learned from my grandmother indirectly. You know, she was always telling us go live your life and enjoy your experiences. Enjoy your youth as much as you can because your loved ones kind of kind of thought process. But a lot of times she she held herself back from doing things because.
00:32:36
Xochitl
There was only something more important than her, you know, traveling or her going to do something she really wanted to do and.
00:32:48
Xochitl
It made me realize, like the moment is kind of now your life is is right here in this moment and you never know.
00:32:56
Xochitl
If tomorrow.
00:32:59
Xochitl
Is going to come and so you have to, you know, don't.
00:33:04
Xochitl
Make your plans for later all the time. I mean, obviously there are some things that are long term goals, but as don't leave.
00:33:14
Xochitl
Enjoyment for later every time. Don't leave.
00:33:19
Xochitl
You know your life for later every time because it will go by in a blur it and there will be so many moments that you missed out on because you were just waiting.
00:33:31
Jack
I I think that's a great great advice, I mean.
00:33:31
Xochitl
You enjoy.
00:33:35
Jack
I think there's something about that generation that is.
00:33:39
Jack
You know.
00:33:42
Jack
There's our your generation and and my generation are are different. I think. I think we're starting to realize that, you know, and taking those lessons and and I think that the the older generation like the the baby boomer generation and and older.
00:33:59
Xochitl
Silent generation, yeah.
00:34:00
Jack
Yeah, they're they're kind of like.
00:34:03
Jack
My my joy. What are you talking about? What does my happiness have to do with anything? You know, like my, my happiness is irrelevant. And and that's kind of sad. You know that. That's the the kind of.
00:34:22
Jack
Thinking that they, you know, they're they were always worried about their children, you know, like the the children's happiness. And I think I think the younger generations now are starting to go, you know what? Maybe the.
00:34:37
Jack
That way, overused expression, carpe diem, you know, sees the day is.
00:34:43
Jack
Is actually. There's some truth in that that you, you your happiness is not irrelevant. It's OK to.
00:34:53
Jack
Have experiences chase your dreams, live your life to the fullest and and not have any regrets when you, when you pass and these kinds of sudden losses.
00:35:12
Jack
Remind us of that. I think that's what you're you're getting at. It's like, ohh yeah. I need to if I if I'm going to honor my grandmother's life or honor my friend's life, then I need to live my life to the fullest. And I think that's part of the acceptance stage as well.
00:35:33
Jack
In the grief process is like you, you're turning, you're going to turn something terrible.
00:35:40
Jack
And try to.
00:35:43
Jack
Instead of being depressed, instead of trying to negotiate a different outcome.
00:35:48
Xochitl
Feeling negatively, yeah.
00:35:50
Jack
Exactly. You're gonna. You're going to live.
00:35:53
Jack
Even a little more.
00:35:56
Jack
Passionately love a little bit more intense.
00:36:00
Jack
Mostly work a little more. I don't know. You know. Just. Yeah. Yeah. I think those are the and and and and I I I don't. I hate to say that that's like turning a negative into a positive because it's not that's not what.
00:36:07
Xochitl
Build your goals and your dreams.
00:36:20
Jack
What you're doing, but what you're doing is you're honoring that person's life by not like.
00:36:27
Jack
Dealing with, you know, getting drunk every night to try to forget about it is not honoring that person's life. And so, and that's how some people cope with depression and anger and denial and all those things and the acceptance stages that no, you're you're living healthfully, you're still.
00:36:30
Xochitl
Right, you mean?
00:36:35
Jack
Right.
00:36:47
Jack
You still grieve that person's the loss of that person, but.
00:36:53
Jack
You're also living your life.
00:36:56
Jack
As fully as you possibly can to honor that person because they no longer are able to. And so, and I think that's the that's the most beautiful thing you can do in the wake of a tragedy like that.
00:37:14
Xochitl
Yeah, because for me, it's like we're cleaning out my grandmother's things, and there's so many things that they're gifts that my aunt gave her that my mother gave her that were still wrapped in the packaging because they were, like, saving them for a special occasion and and middle.
00:37:34
Xochitl
Occasion was special enough.
00:37:36
Xochitl
Kind of thing, because that's like the thinking that's the mindset behind it is like it's like it's never the right moment. And I think the older generations were very much about save now, enjoy later. And I think our US younger generations are starting with enjoy now and save later.
00:37:56
Xochitl
There, there must be a balance somewhere in there, but I don't think they found it.
00:37:58
Jack
There's probably some like happy middle ground.
00:38:02
Jack
But you know all what do all those things mean in the in the end, you know, it's like, you know, maybe your grandmother should have just opened those presents and let the grandchildren play with them, you know, or you know what I mean? Like, like, really experience them and touch them and look at them and.
00:38:23
Xochitl
Enjoyed them? Just enjoy her own life because I feel like she never thought about her own happiness. She didn't really. I'm sure she had joyful moments she did. I know that as much, but it's like I feel like so many joyful moments that she could have had she just put them to one side because her children were more important.
00:38:43
Xochitl
The grandchildren were more important. Whatever was going on was more important in the moment than taking that trip, enjoying something for herself, being selfish for once. And I think it's just it's so important to just.
00:39:00
Xochitl
Have those special moments for yourself sometimes.
00:39:04
Jack
I I totally agree with you and you know, I mean, what is she? What? What is she guilty of? She's guilty of being a very selfless person, you know, and exactly, exactly. And. And that's something that you can appreciate about her and just say, wow, what a what a a beautiful, selfless person she was.
00:39:13
Xochitl
I know which is the beautiful thing for sure.
00:39:24
Jack
And and you know, maybe she did derive great happiness.
00:39:28
Jack
On on seeing her family thrive, you know, and and do well. And and I get that as a parent, I think I I would I would get a lot of I get a lot of happiness in seeing my daughter succeed and and and sometimes that's enough to but.
00:39:48
Jack
Like you said, I think.
00:39:52
Jack
Maybe you know, uh, taking that trip or doing that thing that you really, really want to do.
00:40:00
Jack
Is doesn't make you a selfish person either you know.
00:40:04
Xochitl
Yeah, it's the situation where it's like.
00:40:10
Xochitl
It's your children and grandchildren will be so much that much happier to see you also do things for yourself.
00:40:19
Jack
There you go. That's right. That's right. And that's the one that's maybe where they can't quite get to in their minds. It's like they're, you know, they're going to think that I'm being selfish. And it's like, no, no, no, we we want you to be happy too.
00:40:20
발표자
Sorry things for you.
00:40:36
Jack
And so yeah, I think that.
00:40:40
Jack
Those are some good, good takeaways. Actually. I'm. I'm glad we had this conversation because it actually helped me process some of my own.
00:40:48
Jack
Kind of thinking and ideas around grief.
00:40:53
Jack
Yeah, it's. It's too bad you know that we that that you experienced that so recently and.
00:41:01
Jack
Yeah, I'm just. I'm really sorry for your loss.
00:41:04
Jack
UM.
00:41:05
Xochitl
I appreciate it.
00:41:06
Jack
But, but I'm glad we had this conversation was really, really helpful.
00:41:10
Xochitl
Yeah, me too. Alright, listener as well. If you have ever had a loved one pass away, you're going to grief yourself. You know what it's like. Or if you you're lucky and you don't know what that's like yet and you know, let us know. And our WhatsApp group leave a comment down below at AZ englishpodcast.com or shoot us an e-mail at AZ.
00:41:31
Xochitl
Podcast@gmail.com we would love to hear about how grief is in your culture, what grief is like in your country, what the funeral process is like. All of those things I really like to hear about all you guys, different traditions in your home countries. So yeah, shoot us a line, as we say in the US and.
00:41:50
Xochitl
See you guys next.
00:41:51
Xochitl
OK. Bye bye.
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