Desert Fathers with Bishop Erik Varden Bonus Roundtable: Lust | Desert Fathers in a Year
Jun 6, 2025
Join Jared Stout, who focuses on reframing chastity within a cultural context, and Doyle Baxter, who brings historical and philosophical insights, for a deep dive into the challenges of lust and chastity. They explore Abba Poemen’s teachings, emphasizing the idea that genuine chastity leads to human flourishing rather than mere restriction. The conversation contrasts true love with lust, delving into ancient philosophical perspectives and modern implications. Expect practical guidance for navigating these complex issues in today's world.
39:38
Chastity as Human Thriving
- Bishop Varden reframes chastity as thriving, not just restrictive rules.
- The church upholds legitimate human love, distinguishing eros from lust.
Lust vs Fatherhood Contrast
- Lust is a self-focused distortion draining life like a vampire.
- Fatherhood gives life through self-sacrifice, the true purpose of human sexuality.
Culture Misunderstands Love
- Culture confuses all desire as lust, missing true love's distinction.
- The church teaches love as gift and self-transcendence, opposing selfishness.
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Intro
00:00 • 2min
Chastity and Contemporary Culture
01:32 • 18min
Exploring Love and Desire through Greek Philosophy and Christian Thought
19:54 • 6min
Navigating Lust and Chastity in Faith
25:25 • 11min
Exploring Themes of Lust and Chastity through Prayer and Reflection
36:47 • 3min
CHASTITY
Reconciliation of the Senses
Marisa Rudder
Symposium
Plato
The Symposium is a philosophical dialogue written by Plato around 370 BCE. It depicts a friendly contest of extemporaneous speeches given by a group of notable Athenian men, including Socrates, Alcibiades, and Aristophanes, in praise of Eros, the god of love.
The dialogue is structured as a series of speeches, each developing the ideas of the previous one, and culminates in Socrates' speech, which recounts his conversation with the wise woman Diotima.
The work explores various aspects of love, including its benefits, its connection to philosophy, and its role in human happiness.
The setting is a banquet at the house of the tragedian Agathon, where the men engage in drinking and conversation, leading to heartfelt and noble speeches about love.
Dracula
Bram Stoker
The novel tells the story of Count Dracula, a vampire who moves from Transylvania to England to spread terror and create more vampires.
The story begins with Jonathan Harker, an English solicitor, who travels to Transylvania to finalize the sale of a property to Count Dracula.
Upon discovering Dracula's true nature, Harker barely escapes with his life.
Dracula then travels to England, where he targets Harker's fiancée, Mina, and her friend Lucy.
A group of characters, including Professor Van Helsing, Dr. John Seward, and Quincey Morris, band together to hunt down and destroy Dracula.
The novel explores themes of good vs. evil, modernity vs.
tradition, and the fears and anxieties of the Victorian era, including immigration, sexual desire, and the role of women in society.
Inferno
Dante Alighieri
Inferno is the first part of Dante Alighieri's epic poem, The Divine Comedy.
It describes Dante's journey through the nine concentric circles of Hell, each representing a different level of sin and punishment.
Guided by Virgil, Dante encounters various historical and mythological figures, witnessing their punishments which are symbolic of their sins.
The poem is an allegory of the soul's journey towards God, with Inferno representing the recognition and rejection of sin.
Dante's journey through Hell is also a personal and spiritual exploration, reflecting his own struggles and the political and social issues of his time.
After Virtue
Alistair McIntyre
Alasdair MacIntyre's "After Virtue" is a highly influential work in moral philosophy that critiques modern ethical theories and proposes a return to virtue ethics.
MacIntyre argues that modern moral philosophy has lost its way, leading to a fragmented and incoherent understanding of morality.
He traces the historical development of ethical thought, identifying the decline of virtue ethics and the rise of emotivism and other relativistic approaches.
MacIntyre proposes a revival of virtue ethics grounded in the Aristotelian tradition, emphasizing the importance of character development and the cultivation of virtuous dispositions.
His work has had a profound impact on contemporary ethical debates, inspiring renewed interest in virtue ethics and its application to various social and political issues.
Theology of the Body
null
Christopher West
Deus Caritas Est
Deus Caritas Est
A short description is not available
Pope Benedict XVI
Deus Caritas Est, an encyclical letter by Pope Benedict XVI, explores the nature of Christian love.
It distinguishes between eros (romantic love) and agape (divine love), arguing that both are essential aspects of the Christian faith.
The encyclical traces the historical development of the understanding of love, highlighting its connection to the divine.
It emphasizes the importance of love as a central theme in both the Old and New Testaments.
Benedict XVI connects the concept of love to the social and political dimensions of human life, arguing that authentic love is essential for a just and flourishing society.
Do you have a question for Bishop Varden? Submit your questions here.
Episode Overview
Join host Jamie Baxter from Exodus 90 and guests Adam, Doyle, and Jared for the bonus roundtable discussion of Episode 23 of Desert Fathers in a Year, titled “Lust.” This episode marks the start of a new focus on the fifth chapter of the Desert Fathers’ systematic collection, exploring the timeless wisdom of Abba Poemen on combating lust and anger. With insights from Bishop Varden’s book Chastity: Reconciliation of the Senses, the discussion reframes chastity as a path to human flourishing, not a restrictive rule. Recorded during the Kings of Summer initiative, this episode offers practical guidance for men seeking transformation in Christ amidst a culture wounded by the sexual revolution.
Key Themes and Reflections
- Abba Poemen’s Saying: A brother, struggling with lust and anger, seeks advice from Abba Poemen, who references David’s triumph over the lion and bear (1 Samuel 17:34-36) to illustrate cutting off anger and squeezing out lust through labor. Poemen warns that lovers of pleasure and money cannot live according to God, emphasizing disciplined effort to redirect passions.
- Chastity as Flourishing: Jared highlights Bishop Varden’s reframe of chastity as thriving, not a killjoy rule. Drawing from Deus Caritas Est by Pope Benedict XVI, he distinguishes eros (legitimate longing for love) from lust (self-focused distortion), countering cultural misconceptions that equate all desire with lust.
- Cultural Crisis and Wounded Healers: The sexual revolution has wounded both society and the Church, creating timidity in teaching chastity due to scandals and cultural malaise. Jared notes that even Church leaders are “wounded healers,” yet the Church upholds human dignity through teachings like John Paul II’s Theology of the Body.
- Lust vs. Fatherhood: Jared contrasts the vampire-like nature of lust—draining life for selfish pleasure—with fatherhood, which gives life through self-sacrifice. This aligns with Poemen’s call to redirect passions toward fruitful love, addressing the cultural confusion encapsulated in “love is love.”
- Historical Parallels: Doyle draws from Greek and Roman sexuality, citing Plato’s Symposium and Aristophanes’ works to show that modern sexual confusion is not new. Socrates’ view of love as a pursuit of reason (logos, fulfilled in Christ) prefigures Christian chastity, offering hope that ancient struggles found resolution in truth.
- Lust in Context: Adam shares a young man’s testimony that freedom from lust came not from fixating on it but by addressing deeper issues (e.g., anger, loneliness) through a holistic Christian life. Bishop Varden and Dorothy Sayers note the overemphasis on lust, neglecting other deadly sins like pride, which distorts virtue’s meaning.
- HALT Acronym: Adam introduces the HALT acronym (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired) as a tool to identify underlying triggers for sin, including lust. Addressing these root causes—hunger, anger, loneliness, or fatigue—helps men make better choices and fosters human flourishing.
Scriptural and Literary Connections
- 1 Samuel 17:34-36: David’s victory over the lion and bear, referenced by Poemen, symbolizes overcoming anger and lust through disciplined effort.
- Deus Caritas Est by Pope Benedict XVI: Links eros and agape, affirming the legitimacy of human longing when ordered toward selfless love.
- Theology of the Body by St. John Paul II: Roots Catholic sexual morality in human dignity, freedom, and flourishing, not shame.
- After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre: Critiques modern morality’s reduction to feelings, highlighting the need to direct passions toward truth and goodness.
- Dracula by Bram Stoker: Illustrates lust as vampiric, draining life, contrasting with life-giving fatherhood.
- Inferno by Dante: Places lust early in hell’s circles, suggesting it’s less destructive than sins like wrath, offering hope for redemption.
- Plato’s Symposium: Socrates’ view of love as a pursuit of reason prefigures Christ as the logos, fulfilling all desire.
Action Items for Listeners
- Apply HALT: When tempted by lust or other sins, pause and assess: Are you Hungry, Angry, Lonely, or Tired? Address these root causes (e.g., eat, rest, connect) to make virtuous choices.
- Read Chastity: Dive into Bishop Varden’s Chastity: Reconciliation of the Senses to reframe chastity as equilibrium and flourishing. Links in show notes.
- Holistic Virtue: Expand your focus beyond lust to all seven deadly sins, especially pride. Reflect on how deeper struggles (e.g., anger, loneliness) influence your temptations.
- Seek Affirmation: Build affirming relationships through fraternity (e.g., Exodus 90) to heal emotional deprivation that fuels distorted desires.
Spiritual Context
This episode launches the discussion on lust during the Kings of Summer initiative, inviting men to meditate on King David and Christian kings via the Exodus 90 app. The hosts pray for listeners’ spiritual protection and invoke St. Michael, emphasizing the battle for virtue in a culture of vice.
Call to Action
- Visit DesertFathers.com to subscribe to the newsletter or submit questions for Bishop Varden’s Q&A in early July (email: hello@desertfathers.com).
- Share Desert Fathers in a Year with a friend and leave a review to support the podcast.
- Download the Exodus 90 app to join Kings of Summer, exploring Christ’s kingship through 1 Samuel and historical Christian kings.
- Engage on social media with #DesertFathers to share how you combat lust and pursue chastity.
Notable Quotes
- “The Christian condition is the art of striving to answer a call to perfection while plumbing the depth of our imperfection without despairing and without giving up on the ideal.” – Bishop Varden
- “Chastity is a coming home to yourself, an equilibrium within the tensions we all experience.” – Bishop Varden
- “Love is love? No. One love is destructive, another builds up and gives life.” – Jared
Episode Highlights
- Book Recommendation: Bishop Varden’s Chastity: Reconciliation of the Senses is lauded as a modern spiritual classic, reframing chastity as flourishing.
- Testimony: A young man’s breakthrough from lust came by addressing deeper struggles within a holistic Christian life, not fixating on chastity alone.
- HALT Tool: Adam’s introduction of HALT (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired) provides a practical framework for identifying sin’s triggers.