The Living Philosophy Gary Clark: 'Jung Was 100 Years Ahead!' How Psychedelics Are Proving the Collective Unconscious is Real
Sep 23, 2025
Gary Clark, a Visiting Research Fellow at the University of Adelaide and author focused on the intersection of Jungian psychology and neuroscience, discusses how psychedelics provide new insights into Jung's theories of the collective unconscious. He explores the roles of primary and secondary consciousness, and how psychedelics can reveal deeper archetypal layers of the mind. Clark also addresses cross-cultural motifs observed in psychedelic experiences, challenges some mainstream assumptions, and considers the therapeutic potential of mystical experiences for mental health.
01:10:13
Archetypes As Ancient Brain Systems
- Jung's archetypes likely map onto evolutionarily ancient, subcortical emotion systems.
- These primary-process systems predate cortical consciousness and surface in dreams and ritual.
Psychedelics Reveal Deeper Mind Layers
- Psychedelics loosen the cortical 'ego' networks and allow older brain systems to enter awareness.
- This neural collapse explains numinous experiences, dreams, and therapeutic recalibration.
Use Rigorous Protocols For Psychedelic Research
- Study psychedelics in controlled clinical settings with preparation and guidance.
- Use standardized doses, fMRI, and structured reporting to link subjective reports with brain changes.
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Intro
00:00 • 1min
Positioning Jung with Evolutionary Neuroscience
01:08 • 5min
Primary vs Secondary Consciousness and Affect Neuroscience
05:42 • 2min
How Psychedelics and Dreams Reveal Deeper Layers
07:14 • 5min
Therapeutic Power of Numinous Psychedelic Experiences
11:55 • 5min
Empirical Access to the Collective Unconscious
17:10 • 5min
Specific Archetypal Motifs in Psychedelic Reports
22:20 • 10min
Cross-Cultural Ethnographic Evidence for Archetypes
32:30 • 2min
Jordan Peterson's Use of Jungian Ideas — Strengths and Limits
34:50 • 3min
Fossil Evidence and Human Social Evolution
37:44 • 10min
Updating Jung: Critique and Endorsement
47:47 • 6min
Bringing Neurophenomenology Into a New Depth Psychology
54:09 • 2min
Connections Between McGilchrist and Jungian Neuroscience
56:12 • 5min
Gary's Future Work on Evo-Devo and Goethean Traditions
01:01:22 • 6min
Where to Read More and Recommended Contacts
01:07:09 • 3min
Outro
01:10:05 • 8sec
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If you want to learn more about Gary you can check out his book "Carl Jung and the Evolutionary Sciences: A New Vision for Analytical Psychology" (and grab a free PDF of its intro) here. You can also dive into the rest of his work on academia.edu and ResearchGate.
In this conversation, I sit down with Gary to explore the intersection of Jungian psychology and evolutionary neuroscience, examining how recent psychedelic research provides empirical validation for Jung's theories about the collective unconscious and archetypes. We discuss how modern neuroscience, particularly studies of primary and secondary consciousness systems, maps onto Jung's framework of ego consciousness versus deeper archetypal layers. The conversation covers the revolutionary potential of psychedelic research for studying previously inaccessible aspects of consciousness and Jung's prescient evolutionary approach to depth psychology.
⏳Timestamps
00:00 James's Intro
01:07 Opening and situating Gary's work
03:35 Affective Neuroscience and the Primary and Secondary layers of consciousness
09:00 Psychedelics, the numinous and evolutionary theory
22:17 Have we found the (neuroscientific) archetypes?
28:40 Psychedelics and the Collective Unconscious
34:53 Jordan Peterson's Jungian synthesis
36:57 Peterson gets chimpanzees and ancient humans wrong
46:01 Leaving Jung behind: Depth Psychology maturation as a science
58:50 Mapovers between Iain McGilchrist's work and Gary's
1:01:19 What Gary's working on now
1:07:32 Gary's guest recommendation: Erik Goodwyn