In this episode, Carson Gross joins Carter and Nathan to discuss his book Hypermedia Systems Join them as Carson reflects on the process of publishing the book, the development of HTMX, and how to deal with setbacks!

John Ousterhout and Bob Martin Conversationhttps://github.com/johnousterhout/aposd-vs-clean-code

Fixi.js (a new project from Carson Gross)https://github.com/bigskysoftware/fixi

Triptych - New Attributes for HTML

https://github.com/alexpetros/triptychHTMXhttps://htmx.org/-- Books Mentioned in this Episode --Note: As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.----------------------------------------------------------Hypermedia Systemshttps://amzn.to/4iou43T (Paid Link)Philosophy of

Software Design by John Ousterhouthttps://amzn.to/4bEVMHp (Paid Link)

The Master and Margarita: 50th-Anniversary Edition by Mikhail Bulgakov

https://amzn.to/3R1pzR3 (Paid Link)

Worse is Better (essay)https://www.dreamsongs.com/WorseIsBetter.html

No Silver Bullet

https://worrydream.com/refs/Brooks_1986_-_No_Silver_Bullet.pdf----------------

00:00 Intro

01:47 What Inspired you to write Hypermedia Systems

07:37 Challenging Assumptions, Hypermedia, Javascript, and Worse is Better

13:51 Roy Fielding, REST, HATEOAS and mispronouncing things.

16:15 What is the most surprising outcome of writing Hypermedia Systems?

19:42 Creating fixi.js

28:32 Discussing Progressive Enhancement, Triptych, and Browser Standards

35:40 Dealing with Setbacks and Success

41:01 No Silver Bullet, and the Ousterhout and Martin debate

50:00 What if No HTMX? Hypercard

56:11 Tool chains, debuggers, and developer expectations

01:01:29 Final Thoughts

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Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5kj6DLCEWR5nHShlSYJI5L

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/book-overflow/id1745257325

X: https://x.com/bookoverflowpod

Carter on X: https://x.com/cartermorgan

Nathan's Functionally Imperative: www.functionallyimperative.com

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Book Overflow is a podcast for software engineers, by software engineers dedicated to improving our craft by reading the best technical books in the world. Join Carter Morgan and Nathan Toups as they read and discuss a new technical book each week!

The full book schedule and links to every major podcast player can be found at https://www.bookoverflow.io

2-Elder Neal A. Maxwell, October 1974, "Why Not Now?"