This is the first of three conversations I recorded at CNU31 in Charlotte in late May/early June. I’ll roll the rest out in coming weeks - each was VERY different, but thoroughly enjoyable. Here’s a tease: I had my first guest cry on-air.

Andy Boneau is just a really fun and interesting person to talk with. Part engineer, part planner, part marketing and messaging expert, and now a documentary filmmaker - Andy writes the can’t-miss Substack Urbanism Speakeasy. Andy is funny, self-deprecating, but also profound. If you are someone that thinks at all about issues related to planning, street design and cities, AND cares about messaging, this is a must-listen.

Of course, Andy is also another Gen X’er, and it makes me wonder, should I just do a Gen X podcast? Send me your thoughts.

Here’s a few other links:

Post – New Urbanism Saved My Life

Link to the Seed and Spark funding page for “White Collar Epidemic: Infrastructure is Crumbling our Minds and Bodies”

Why We Buy, by Paco Underhill

Find more content on The Messy City on Kevin’s Substack page.

Music notes: all songs by low standards, ca. 2010. Videos here. If you’d like a CD for low standards, message me and you can have one for only $5.

Intro: “Why Be Friends”

Outro: “Fairweather Friend”

Get full access to The Messy City at kevinklinkenberg.substack.com/subscribe

‘They were afraid to be first, now they're afraid to be left behind’: Paxos’ Charles Cascarilla