Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

Donald Hoffman Λ Joscha Bach on Consciousness, Free Will, Gödel, and Computational Reality

Feb 7, 2022

Donald Hoffman, a professor at UC Irvine, specializes in consciousness and evolutionary psychology, while Joscha Bach is a cognitive scientist known for his groundbreaking work in AI. They delve into the mysteries of consciousness and free will, discussing revolutionary ideas about reality beyond traditional space-time. The conversation tackles Gödel's incompleteness theorem and its implications for truth, the nature of self-identity in early childhood, and how computational limits might redefine our understanding of existence and agency.

02:23:41

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Episode guests

Joscha Bach

Donald Hoffman

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Quick takeaways

Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem reveals limitations in mathematics' ability to describe reality and the difference between truth and proof.

The mind constructs virtual simulations or models of space, time, and objects to make sense of experiences.

A theory of consciousness should go beyond the assumptions of space-time and neurons and provide precise explanations for conscious experiences.

Stateless mathematics lacks the notion of time and cannot deal with infinities, making truth contingent on language.

Computational models are approximations and interpretations of reality, allowing for the perception of free will.

Deep dives

Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem and the Limits of Mathematics

Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem reveals that mathematics is limited in its ability to describe reality. Reality extends beyond what can be proven mathematically, leading to the recognition that truth and proof are not the same. Computation, which is highly valued, has its own limits, and physicists are discovering that space-time itself is not fundamental. This challenges the assumption that neurons and space-time are the foundations of consciousness. The spectral gap problem in condensed matter physics suggests that something non-computational is at play. The relationship between mathematics, consciousness, and reality is complex and multifaceted, requiring precise definitions and derivations to understand consciousness in a scientific manner.

The Limitless Potential of Programming and Computer Screens

00:59

What is Before the Big Bank?

01:02

I'm Not a Human Being. Is it a New Agent?

02:54

The Insurmountable Problem of Continuity in Physics

01:35

Intro

6min

Exploring the Boundaries of Scientific Understanding

4min

Beyond Space-Time: Consciousness Redefined

30min

Emergence of Consciousness and Self-Identity in Early Childhood

2min

Exploring Consciousness and Identity: A Philosophical Inquiry

3min

Beyond Computation: Gödel and the Limits of Science

7min

Rethinking Computation and Consciousness

27min

Revisiting Computation and Time in Understanding Reality

6min

Reframing Time: From Newtonian to Relativistic

13min

10.

The Dance of Free Will and Consciousness

24min

11.

Exploring Infinity and Mathematical Paradoxes

3min

12.

Complexities of Continuity and Consciousness

16min

13.

Exploring the Dimensions of Taste and Consciousness

2min

YouTube link: https://youtu.be/bhSlYfVtgww

Deep dive into the nature of consciousness and reality.

Sponsors: https://brilliant.org/TOE for 20% off. For Algo's podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9IfRw1QaTglRoX0sN11AQQ and website https://www.algo.com/.

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Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerch

LINKS MENTIONED:

-QBism Paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/1003.5209

-Donald Hoffman's book The Case Against Reality (affiliate): https://amzn.to/34eWmxz

-Plato and the Nerd (affiliate): https://amzn.to/34GMexr

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 Introduction

00:03:34 Is a Theory of Everything possible? / Definition of Consciousness

00:08:32 Spacetime's fundamental nature (or not)

00:14:27 Joscha Bach on mysterianism, telepathy, and consciousness

00:34:40 Joscha has a way of interpreting the Bible literally

00:42:01 Physical world vs Computational world

00:57:57 On Gödel and changing the definition of truth to provable / computable

01:12:33 What parts of the mind makes statements beyond computation?

01:13:57 Real numbers don't exist?

01:15:23 [Prof. Edward Lee] Reality is not necessarily algorithmic

01:34:02 Donald Hoffman on Free Will

01:44:03 Joscha Bach on Free Will and whether a TOE exists

01:57:10 What would change in Bach's model if classical logic was correct?

02:07:42 Penrose and Lucas argument regarding Gödel and the mind

02:13:55 Closing thoughts from Bach and Hoffman on each other's work

* * *

Just wrapped (April 2021) a documentary called Better Left Unsaid http://betterleftunsaidfilm.com on the topic of "when does the left go too far?" Visit that site if you'd like to watch it.

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Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

Donald Hoffman Λ Joscha Bach on Consciousness, Free Will, Gödel, and Computational Reality

Episode guests

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Deep dives

Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem and the Limits of Mathematics

The Role of Perception and Truth

The Mind's Creation of Reality

The Importance of Assumptions and Derivations in Consciousness Theories

The Limitations of Stateless Mathematics

The Role of Computation and Modeling in Understanding Reality

The Controversy Surrounding Continuity and Constructive Mathematics

Summary of Main Idea 1

Summary of Main Idea 2

The Limitless Potential of Programming and Computer Screens

What is Before the Big Bank?

I'm Not a Human Being. Is it a New Agent?

The Insurmountable Problem of Continuity in Physics

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts