80,000 Hours Podcast
#138 – Sharon Hewitt Rawlette on why pleasure and pain are the only things that intrinsically matter
Episode guests
Podcast summary created with Snipd AI
Quick takeaways
- Positive feelings are the only intrinsically valuable aspect of life according to Sharon Hewitt Rawlette.
- Non-hedonistic elements like love and truth possess intrinsic value beyond mere pleasure and pain.
- Personal disposition influences pleasure evaluation challenging a singular axis of value assessment.
- Hedonism's limitations in capturing the diversity of human experiences highlight broader intrinsic value dimensions.
- Balancing information specificity and generality in decision-making enhances efficiency under uncertainty.
- Mutual trust and stability in societal actions under hedonistic utilitarianism require coordination and predictable outcomes.
Deep dives
Understanding Intrinsic Value and Value Theory
Value theory explores the concept of intrinsic value and its role in moral philosophy. The theory delves into the core question of whether there are objective moral truths and how we come to know them. It distinguishes between intrinsic values that are ends in themselves and instrumental values that serve as means to an end. The discussion highlights the importance of clarifying what we consider valuable for its own sake, which influences our ethical judgments and decision-making.
Hedonistic Framework for Value Assessment
Criticism arises regarding the application of hedonism to assess the value of knowledge, beauty, and relationships based solely on their ability to generate positive experiences or prevent negative ones. While hedonism emphasizes pleasure and pain as the core metrics for value, objections point out that intrinsic value can be attributed to non-hedonistic elements such as love and truth, beyond their mere hedonic impact. This tension reveals a broader perspective on value assessment beyond hedonistic considerations.
Personal Identity and Value Attribution
Diving into the complexities of personal identity and its intersection with value attribution, the podcast explores the link between experiences, decision-making, and moral judgments. It examines how individuals navigate trade-offs between different experiences, suggesting a common neural basis for evaluating diverse pleasures and pains. By discussing the influence of personal disposition on pleasure appreciation, it challenges the notion of a singular axis of value assessment.
Challenges to Hedonism and Value Hierarchy
The debate extends to the constraints of hedonism's utility in assessing the richness and diversity of human experiences. Objectors raise concerns about hedonistic limitations in capturing the nuances of value inherent in relationships, knowledge, and beauty. This highlights the philosophical inquiry into the hierarchical nature of value, where certain experiences transcend mere hedonistic evaluation, inviting a broader exploration of intrinsic value dimensions.
Importance of uncertainty in decision-making under hedonistic utilitarianism
When making decisions based on hedonistic utilitarianism, uncertainty plays a crucial role. Balancing between information specificity and generality is essential to predict consequences accurately. Focusing on the most correlated factors for predictions rather than being overloaded with multiple variables enhances decision-making efficiency in the face of uncertainty.
Significance of coordination and predictability in societal actions under hedonistic utilitarianism
Coordination among individuals is vital in societal actions influenced by hedonistic utilitarianism. Predicting the consequences of actions relies on knowing others' choices. Upholding rules that align personal actions with predictable societal outcomes fosters mutual trust and stability.
Consideration of motivational limitations for individual welfare under hedonistic utilitarianism
Motivational limitations, driven by personal biases towards self-interest, encourage the focus on individual welfare under hedonistic utilitarianism. Acknowledging autonomy, personal incentives, and the intrinsic nature of self-benefit guides decisions and societal structures to align with maximizing overall utility.
Evaluation of an organ transplantation hypothetical scenario within hedonistic utilitarianism
The recommendation of organ transplantation in an ethical dilemma involving one healthy individual and five sick individuals is complex under hedonistic utilitarianism. Considerations of rights, societal implications, and motivational factors highlight potential repugnance and undermine the utilitarian justification for such actions.
Implications of utilitarianism and personal autonomy in societal decision-making processes
Utilitarianism's impact on societal decision-making involves balancing welfare maximization with individual autonomy. Upholding rights, ensuring predictability, and acknowledging motivational biases are crucial for ethical and effective policy formulation under utilitarian principles.
Integration of ethical considerations and societal norms in utilitarian decision-making
Utilitarian decision-making necessitates integrating ethical considerations with societal norms to optimize welfare outcomes. Balancing personal autonomy, rights protection, and societal welfare goals ensures a harmonious blend of individual and collective interests.
Analysis of potential conflicts between individual rights and utilitarian principles
Potential conflicts between individual rights and utilitarian principles surface in decision-making processes. Resolving these conflicts requires a nuanced understanding of autonomy, societal impact, and ethical implications within utilitarian frameworks.
Ethical implications of utilitarian practices in real-world applications
Utilitarian practices in real-world applications raise ethical considerations regarding individual rights, societal welfare, and decision-making processes. Balancing utility maximization with moral principles is essential for fostering ethical guidelines in diverse contexts.
Incorporation of individual perspectives and societal needs in utilitarian ethics
Utilitarian ethics encompass incorporating individual perspectives and societal needs to optimize welfare outcomes. Striking a balance between personal autonomy, ethical considerations, and collective welfare fosters a comprehensive approach to decision-making under utilitarian principles.
Drawbacks of Secrecy in Medical Operations
Performing surgical operations in secret can lead to drawbacks due to the lack of advice from other medical professionals. Without open communication, the surgeon may miss out on valuable insights and potential risks. Secrecy hampers the ability to gather diverse opinions and expertise, increasing uncertainty around the procedure's success and post-operative care.
Ethical Implications of Organ Transplants
Examining the ethics of organ transplants raises questions about the trade-offs involved. Considering alternatives like waiting for organ donors or exploring different approaches challenges the traditional five-to-one ratio of organ donation benefits. The podcast delves into the complexities of organ transplants, highlighting the need for ethical considerations beyond simple numerical calculations.
What in the world is intrinsically good — good in itself even if it has no other effects? Over the millennia, people have offered many answers: joy, justice, equality, accomplishment, loving god, wisdom, and plenty more.
The question is a classic that makes for great dorm-room philosophy discussion. But it's hardly just of academic interest. The issue of what (if anything) is intrinsically valuable bears on every action we take, whether we’re looking to improve our own lives, or to help others. The wrong answer might lead us to the wrong project and render our efforts to improve the world entirely ineffective.
Today's guest, Sharon Hewitt Rawlette — philosopher and author of The Feeling of Value: Moral Realism Grounded in Phenomenal Consciousness — wants to resuscitate an answer to this question that is as old as philosophy itself.
Links to learn more, summary, full transcript, and full version of this blog post.
That idea, in a nutshell, is that there is only one thing of true intrinsic value: positive feelings and sensations. And similarly, there is only one thing that is intrinsically of negative value: suffering, pain, and other unpleasant sensations.
Lots of other things are valuable too: friendship, fairness, loyalty, integrity, wealth, patience, houses, and so on. But they are only instrumentally valuable — that is to say, they’re valuable as means to the end of ensuring that all conscious beings experience more pleasure and other positive sensations, and less suffering.
As Sharon notes, from Athens in 400 BC to Britain in 1850, the idea that only subjective experiences can be good or bad in themselves -- a position known as 'philosophical hedonism' -- has been one of the most enduringly popular ideas in ethics.
And few will be taken aback by the notion that, all else equal, more pleasure is good and less suffering is bad. But can they really be the only intrinsically valuable things?
Over the 20th century, philosophical hedonism became increasingly controversial in the face of some seemingly very counterintuitive implications. For this reason the famous philosopher of mind Thomas Nagel called The Feeling of Value "a radical and important philosophical contribution."
In today's interview, Sharon explains the case for a theory of value grounded in subjective experiences, and why she believes the most popular counterarguments are misguided.
Host Rob Wiblin and Sharon also cover:
• The essential need to disentangle intrinsic, instrumental, and other sorts of value
• Why Sharon’s arguments lead to hedonistic utilitarianism rather than hedonistic egoism (in which we only care about our own feelings)
• How do people react to the 'experience machine' thought experiment when surveyed?
• Why hedonism recommends often thinking and acting as though it were false
• Whether it's crazy to think that relationships are only useful because of their effects on our subjective experiences
• Whether it will ever be possible to eliminate pain, and whether doing so would be desirable
• If we didn't have positive or negative experiences, whether that would cause us to simply never talk about goodness and badness
• Whether the plausibility of hedonism is affected by our theory of mind
• And plenty more
Chapters:
- Rob’s intro (00:00:00)
- The interview begins (00:02:45)
- Metaethics (00:04:16)
- Anti-realism (00:10:39)
- Sharon's theory of moral realism (00:16:17)
- The history of hedonism (00:23:11)
- Intrinsic value vs instrumental value (00:28:49)
- Egoistic hedonism (00:36:30)
- Single axis of value (00:42:19)
- Key objections to Sharon’s brand of hedonism (00:56:18)
- The experience machine (01:06:08)
- Robot spouses (01:22:29)
- Most common misunderstanding of Sharon’s view (01:27:10)
- How might a hedonist actually live (01:37:46)
- The organ transplant case (01:53:34)
- Counterintuitive implications of hedonistic utilitarianism (02:03:40)
- How could we discover moral facts? (02:18:05)
Producer: Keiran Harris
Audio mastering: Ryan Kessler
Transcriptions: Katy Moore
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