Dr. Jordan B Peterson interviews Dr. Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation, discussing the role of think tanks, the decline of critical thinking, intellectual combat, challenges in academia, leading with emotions vs reason, building trust in communities, the philosophy of rugged individualism, and the mission of the Heritage Foundation.
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Quick takeaways
Fostering intellectual diversity and robust debate within academia is essential for effective policy development.
Avoidance of contentious debates and cancel culture hinder the development of sound ideas and effective policy-making.
Creating spaces for respectful disagreements and intellectual combat is crucial for fostering a lively and inclusive intellectual community.
The conservative movement should emphasize individual responsibility and local autonomy as the source of meaning and societal well-being, rather than solely focusing on a smaller government.
Deep dives
The Role and Purpose of Think Tanks
Think tanks are research institutions that focus on public policy issues with the goal of influencing the outcome of public policy. They conduct research and some may also engage in advocacy to shape policy at various levels of government. Think tanks in the US are distributed across the political spectrum, although the proportion of right-leaning think tanks has increased in recent decades. These institutions serve as quasi-academic bodies, often staffed by individuals who leave academia or collaborate on contract-based work. The US has a vibrant and robust think tank ecosystem, with many based in Washington, DC.
The Danger of Intellectual Stagnation in Academia
The podcast episode addresses the dangers of intellectual stagnation in academia, particularly in relation to progressivism. It discusses the decline of critical thinking, intellectual combat, and the lack of ideological diversity in academic institutions, specifically in the social sciences and humanities. The interviewee shares personal stories of being the only conservative in graduate school and throughout his academic career. The rise of conservative think tanks in the US is attributed, in part, to the lack of conservative representation in universities. The episode highlights the importance of fostering intellectual diversity and engaging in robust debate within academia.
The Problems with Cancel Culture and Unwillingness to Debate
The podcast addresses the issues of cancel culture and the avoidance of contentious debates, particularly on the political left. It discusses the reluctance among left-leaning individuals to engage in intellectual combat and their tendency to prioritize emotional comfort and compassion over intellectual rigor. The interviewee emphasizes the need for healthy and robust debate, which involves challenging one's own presuppositions and being open to criticism. The lack of intellectual combat in universities and political circles is seen as detrimental to the development of sound ideas and effective policy-making. The podcast underscores the importance of free speech, critical thinking, and the willingness to have uncomfortable conversations.
Creating a Culture of Debate and Hospitality
The podcast highlights the importance of fostering a culture that encourages robust debate while maintaining a sense of hospitality and community. It emphasizes the need for think tanks and academic institutions to create spaces where disagreements can occur in person, allowing for productive intellectual combat without becoming personal. The interviewee mentions the positive culture at the Heritage Foundation, which combines intense debate with hospitality and cheerfulness, creating an environment where differing viewpoints can be explored in a respectful manner. The importance of developing an inclusive and lively intellectual community, while adhering to core principles, is emphasized as essential for effective policy development.
The Danger of Aligning the Decentralization Argument with Libertarian Principles
Many believe that the conservative movement weakened its argument for the decentralization of power by aligning it too closely with libertarian, neo-con, and free market principles. This alignment often leads to proclaiming that a government that is too large is dangerous. However, this argument overlooks the crucial issue at hand. The size of the government is not the main concern; rather, it is the redistribution of power and the decentralization of responsibility that are key. By focusing solely on a smaller government and reducing the tax burden, the argument fails to address the importance of individual responsibility and local autonomy as the source of meaning and societal well-being.
The Link Between Responsibility, Meaning, and Sustainable Communities
Taking responsibility for oneself, one's family, and one's local community contributes to a sense of meaning and sustains individuals through challenges. The speaker emphasizes the importance of devolving responsibility to lower levels of hierarchy, emphasizing that it is not just about power but about responsibility and its alignment with meaning. By engaging in responsible conduct at various levels (from the personal to the communal), individuals restore meaning and build reciprocal social interactions that support them in times of crisis. This understanding challenges the prevailing notion that meaning can only be found in narrow hedonism and reiterates the importance of taking responsibility for the betterment of oneself and the community.
Balancing Individual Self-Interest and Social Responsibility
The conversation highlights the inadequacies of Ayn Rand's philosophy, particularly her emphasis on individual self-interest as the guiding principle. The speaker argues that individual self-interest is not confined to narrow hedonism but must account for the responsibility individuals have towards their future selves, their descendants, and the community. It is essential to strike a balance between individual interests and communal well-being, recognizing that enlightened self-interest and social interest are inseparable. The conservative movement can offer the deep and abiding meaning that comes from the voluntary assumption of responsibility, which sets it apart from Rand's emphasis on self-interest. The conversation concludes by emphasizing that both the free market and science rely on the underlying ethos of responsibility, community, and trust to truly thrive and benefit society.
Dr. Jordan B Peterson sits down with the current president of the Heritage Foundation, Dr. Kevin Roberts. They discuss the operations and practical utility of think tanks, the state of progressivism across academia, how multiple generations of students are now incapable of facing adversity, while claiming to fight it, and why intellectual combat is not something to shut down, but to champion against dire falsehoods.
Dr. Kevin Roberts is the current and 7th president of the Heritage Foundation (granted the role in 2021), an American Conservative think tank tackling issues on border control, immigration, inflation, among many other policy driven topics. He received his PhD in History from the University of Texas. After this, he taught history for a number of years. Then, in 2006 he founded the John Paul The Great Academy, a co-ed, K-12 Catholic liberal arts school in Lafayette, Louisiana. He was president for 7 years before resigning in order to become president of the Wyoming Catholic College.
- Links -
For Dr. Kevin Roberts:
Follow Dr. Kevin Roberts on Twitter: https://twitter.com/KevinRobertsTX
Watch The Kevin Roberts Show: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBs6_t5NjudTqHeZr4FImBukCe437Huo7
Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-kevin-roberts-show/id1609468507?utm_medium=social&utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=thf-yt
Visit Heritage online: www.Heritage.org
Follow The Heritage Foundation on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/heritagefoundation/
Follow The Heritage Foundation on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Heritage
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