Psychedelic Somatic Interactional Psychotherapy with Saj Razvi

Dec 6, 2022

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On this episode of the Psychedelic Therapy Frontiers podcast, Dr. Joe Flanders interviews Saj Razvi. Saj is the Director of Education at the Psychedelic Somatic Institute (PSI) and one of the primary developers of the Psychedelic Somatic Interactional Psychotherapy (PSIP) modality. He is a psychotherapist and former clinical researcher in the MAPS Phase 2 trial of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. He is faculty at Mind Medicine Australia and taught PTSD studies at the University of Denver. Learn more about Saj on the PSI website.

(3:52) Saj's background
(6:50) The power of cannabis to help with the psychotherapy process
(9:00) Psychedelic therapy is complex and an art form
(13:25) The trauma roots of treatment-resistant mental health conditions
(15:39) PSIP vs insight-oriented therapies
(24:18) Psychedelics and working at the somatic level
(27:55) White paper on PSIP
(29:24) The default mod network and entropic brain
(36:38) How the nervous system self-corrects the effects of trauma through a 5-stage defense cascade
(53:30) Avoidance and shame
(57:30) Selective inhibition
(01:08:44) Inside and outside the window of tolerance
(01:12:20) Working with trauma is about relationship/attachment
(01:16:45) Joe's experience with PSIP
(01:26:25) Adaptive vs maladaptive responses to stress
(01:36:00) Cannabis and working with dissociation in trauma therapy
(01:43:35) "Cracking open" stuckness in psychedelic therapy
(01:46:20) Cannabis vs ketamine

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