John Behr - Why didn't God create us perfect?

This is our second talk in John Behr’s series on the Church Fathers. This talk outlines the ‘wild’ world of how Irenaeus of Lyon (around 170 AD) saw the Gospel - not as a rescue mission but as a plan for humanity to share in the ‘uncreated’ life of God. In case you don’t know already, Irenaeus was Bishop of Lyons in France, just after it suffered terrible persecutions. He was a disciple of Polycarp, who was in turn a disciple of John. So that makes Irenaeus a ‘grandson’ of John. Some of my theological friends rate him the greatest theologian of all…. at least he is in the top ten!!

This talk is a bit mind-bending, but then again so is the topic of ‘God’ and ‘creation’ and that is where Irenaeus starts his thinking. He begins with time - and why God created time as a necessary framework for us humans to dwell in. Along the way, he confronts really modern questions such as our title - Why did God not just create us all perfect and skip over the problems of sin and conflict? Why allow all this mess to happen?

The big idea that will organise all of Irenaeus’ theology is GROWTH. And not just any kind of growth but growth on the part of humanity towards participation in the divine and uncreated life of God.

Clearly we are not just getting an academic summary from John here - we are getting a meeting of minds across two thousand years, with John Behr in dialogue with Irenaeus. And John is inviting us to join the dialogue.

As before I have crafted an introduction that gives a short overview of the big ideas as a coat hanger to help you absorb the sheer profundity of these ideas.

Gospel Conversations is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Get full access to Gospel Conversations at gospelconversations.substack.com/subscribe