Resolving Mind-Body Duality - Dr. Anna Ciaunica, Co-Embodied Self Lab, DSPod 198
Oct 26, 2023
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Dr. Anna Ciaunica, a researcher at the Co-Embodied Self Lab, discusses topics such as proximal experiences, consciousness as not a 'thing,' touch and metacognition, hazards of extending consciousness to other organisms, fixing reification with futuristic articles, rocking babies and stadiums, language and thought across cultures, instrumentalizing depersonalization research, pathology of dissociation, cause for optimism in technofuturism, and male v. female brains investigate.
Self-awareness starts early and is embodied and interactive, establishing a foundation for higher-level cognitive abilities.
Touch plays a significant role in self-regulation and the formation of self-awareness, serving as a boundary between the internal and external world.
Consciousness should be seen as dynamic and continuously emerging from complex interactions with the environment, challenging the traditional concept of it as a 'thing'.
There is a need for a more empirical and holistic approach in science, acknowledging the dynamic nature of reality and focusing on effective measurement and continuous discovery.
Deep dives
Understanding the Self-Other Relationship and Self-Consciousness
The podcast episode explores the importance of understanding how we relate to ourselves, others, and our bodies. The speaker emphasizes the need for interdisciplinary research and the role of connectivity between individuals. They challenge the traditional view that self-consciousness arises only when we become aware of ourselves as seen by others. Instead, they argue that self-awareness starts early, is embodied, and interactive. They discuss studies on infants and how they establish a basic form of self-awareness through bodily interactions and exploration. This early self-awareness serves as a foundation for higher-level cognitive abilities.
The Interplay Between Touch and Self-Consciousness
The podcast delves into the importance of touch in establishing a sense of self. Touch is described as a boundary between the internal and external world, and its sensory information is constantly processed by the brain. The speaker highlights the early self-awareness demonstrated by infants in their interaction with their bodies and environment. They emphasize the significant role of touch in self-regulation and the formation of our self-awareness. The example of touch helps illustrate the relational nature of our self and its connection to the world around us. Touch is an ongoing sensory experience that influences our perception and interaction with the environment.
The Complexity of Consciousness and Experiences
The podcast challenges the traditional understanding of consciousness and highlights the need for a new conceptual toolbox. The speaker suggests that defining consciousness as a thing is misleading and proposes focusing on conscious experiences and their aboutness or intentionality. They argue that consciousness should be seen as dynamic and continuously emerging from complex interactions with the environment. The importance of examining bottom-up unfolding development is emphasized, rather than starting with a predetermined top-down concept of consciousness. The speaker encourages exploring the shared and interconnected nature of living systems to better understand what makes humans distinct.
The Limitations of Simplifying Complex Systems
The podcast discusses the limitations of simplifying complex systems in science and the tendency to focus on isolated components rather than holistic interactions. The speaker criticizes the idea of searching for a solid, unchanging bedrock of knowledge and emphasizes the dynamic nature of reality. They advocate for a more empirical approach, acknowledging that our understanding is constantly evolving. The limitations of mathematics and logic in capturing the complexity of relational systems are addressed. The speaker suggests a focus on measurement, accepting the risk of being wrong while striving to continuously discover and measure reality effectively.
Researching depersonalization and measuring subjective experiences
Depersonalization is a subjective experience where individuals feel detached from themselves. Researchers are interested in measuring and understanding this phenomenon. They use various methods, including behavioral, physiological, and qualitative measures to compare and contrast cases. For example, studies have explored automatic facial mirroring, where individuals automatically mimic the expressions of others. They found that people experiencing depersonalization show a reduced response when seeing themselves in video recordings. This research aims to validate and understand subjective reports of depersonalization, ensuring that individuals' experiences are accurately measured and verified.
The importance of sensory feedback and self-perception
One study examined how self-perception and sensory feedback impact the sense of self. Participants were asked to detect touches on their own face while simultaneously watching video recordings of themselves or strangers being touched. Typical controls were quicker when detecting touches on their own faces, while individuals experiencing depersonalization showed no difference in reaction time between self and other. This suggests that they perceive the self on the screen as another person rather than themselves. Additionally, individuals with depersonalization may engage in actions like touching objects to regain a sense of reality and reconnect with their bodies. This highlights the role of sensory feedback and physical interactions in grounding oneself in the body.
Future directions and interventions for depersonalization
The researcher's ultimate goal is to design interventions that can help individuals with depersonalization regain a sense of self and connection with their bodies. This includes exploring the use of sensory feedback, such as dynamic interactions with the environment, to ground individuals in their bodies. Additionally, studies are being conducted to examine the impact of art engagement and movement synchronization with others to potentially alter the way individuals relate to themselves and their bodies. By expanding our understanding of depersonalization and developing practical interventions, researchers aim to improve the well-being and quality of life for individuals experiencing this phenomenon.
Dr. Anna Ciaunica leads the Co-Embodied Self Lab (CELab) in Lisbon where she combines theoretical work with experimental approaches to explore the relationship between (a)typical forms of self-consciousness, embodiment, and social interactions in human and artificial agents.
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(00:00:00) Go!
(00:00:18) Who is Anna Ciaunica?
(00:08:17) Proximal experiences
(00:12:33) Consciousness is not a 'thing'
(00:19:22) Touch & metacognition
(00:27:20) Hazards of extending consciousness to other organisms
(00:34:23) Fixing reification with futuristic articles
(00:40:58) Rocking babies and stadiums
(00:47:42) Language and thought across cultures
(00:59:00) Conclusions v measurements
(01:07:11) Instrumentalizing depersonalization research
(01:15:52) Pathology of dissociation
(01:27:49) Cause for optimism in technofuturism
(01:35:00) Male v. female brains investigate
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#Consciousness, #BodyandMind, #SelfAwareness, #Mindfulness, #HumanConsciousness, #InnerExperience, #SelfDiscovery, #BodyAwareness, #ConsciousnessExploration, #Mind-BodyConnection, #PhilosophyofMind, #AwarenessWithin, #ConsciousExperience, #EmbodiedConsciousness, #Meditation, #SomaticAwareness, #MindfulLiving, #SelfReflection, #EmbodiedMind, #PsychologyofConsciousness.
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PODCAST INFO: Anastasia completed her PhD studying bioelectricity at Columbia University. When not talking to brilliant people or making movies, she spends her time painting, reading, and guiding backcountry excursions. Shilo also did his PhD at Columbia studying the elastic properties of molecular water. When he's not in the film studio, he's exploring sound in music. They are both freelance professors at various universities.
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