Scientist Donald Hoffman Says Everything You Know Is a Lie—And Reality Isn’t Real (Fan Fav)

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Nov 1, 2025

Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman, author of *The Case Against Reality*, dives into the mind-bending realm of consciousness. He argues that our perception of reality is merely a user interface, much like in virtual reality. Hoffman introduces the concept of conscious agents and discusses how consciousness doesn’t conform to physical laws. He connects evolution to this user interface and shares insights on exploring the unknown. Their conversation even touches on the implications for AI and a scientific understanding of spirituality.

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INSIGHT

Space-Time Is A User Interface

Our best scientific theories show space-time and physical objects are not fundamental to reality.
Hoffman argues consciousness must be the deeper foundation that projects a space-time interface to us.

ANECDOTE

Grand Theft Auto Metaphor For Reality

Hoffman uses Grand Theft Auto as a concrete metaphor for our space-time interface.
The programmer (outside) knows code; the gamer (inside) experiences steering wheels and cars.

INSIGHT

Upgrade Your Model To See The Outer Code

If you're stuck inside a simulation, causes inside it won't reveal the external code.
To understand the deeper reality you must expand beyond in-headset causation and model new causes.

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This is a fan fav episode. In this episode, Donald Hoffman returns and takes a deeper dive with Tom to discuss the complexities of consciousness perceived in and out of spacetime. Donald shares the possibilities of consciousness and the infinite nature of theories that exist outside of the virtual reality headset he uses to describe the version of reality you may still be experiencing. Take the plunge into this conversation and challenge the consciousness of what you call your true self. Order Donald’s latest book, ‘The Case Against Reality’: ⁠https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Reality-Evolution-Truth/dp/0393254690⁠

Original air date: 4-1-21

SHOW NOTES:

Consciousness | The theory of reality beyond the physical space and time [1:24]

Spacetime | Donald relates Grand Theft Auto to understanding reality beyond space time [7:48]

Testing Reality | Testable predictions of reality outside of space time and the fundamental nature of consciousness [10:40]

Conscious Agents | Donald introduces conscious agents using the Twitter model [16:00]

Conscious Illusion | How consciousness is not bound to the laws of physics and is created as needed in a simulation [22:00]

Evolution | Why evolutionary theory only exists in space and time within the VR experience [26:34]

The Unknown | The dark side of letting go to explore unknown concepts [33:40]

Spacetime Simulator | Donald takes us through how consciousness is explored [37:33]

Predicted Consciousness | Enjoying experience and predicting the realm of consciousness [49:57]

Girdles Down | The Girdles theorem and why everything can not theoretically be known [54:46]

A.I. Consciousness | How reductionism makes it possible to give rise to consciousness [1:03:54]

Created Consciousness | Donald explains the creation of consciousness from portals [1:10:29]

God Hypothesis | Donald’s hypothesis of science of God as agent of consciousness [1:15:05]

Asymptotic behavior | Long term behaviors from far away that use spacetime theory [1:26:07]

Alien Intelligence | Donald discusses alien intelligence and being in a simulator [1:31:22]

Living vs NonLiving | Being unplugged from VR game and notion of self [1:33:53]

Meditation | Donald shares how meditating to let go and have complete silence transforms his thoughts [1:46:20]

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