In Episode 421 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Ian Fletcher, one of America’s foremost experts on industrial policy, about the problems with free trade and how to revitalize the U.S. economy.

Ian and Demetri spend the first hour of the episode laying the foundation for the argument Fletcher and his co-author, Marc Fasteau, present in their book Industrial Policy for the United States: Winning the Competition for Good Jobs and High-Value Industries. This portion includes a comprehensive critique of free-market economics and a systematic exploration of the tools that can be deployed to build critical industries and ignite flywheels of innovation essential to the long-term success of a modern economy.

In the second hour, Kofinas and Fletcher examine international and historical examples of both successful and unsuccessful implementations of industrial policy, discussing what went right, what went wrong, and how those lessons can inform the development and implementation of a successful industrial policy for the United States in the 21st century. The conversation concludes with a series of policy recommendations for the White House and Congress.

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Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou

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Episode Recorded on 06/2/2025

Scraps: Mustard, bad hot dog takes and urinals