The Auron MacIntyre Show Everything You Know About the Separation of Church and State Is Wrong | Guest: Timon Cline | 8/29/25
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Aug 29, 2025 Timon Cline, editor in chief at American Reformer and a lawyer who recently submitted a paper to the Harvard Law Review, joins the discussion on the misunderstood separation of church and state in the U.S. He reveals how early America operated with state churches and blasphemy laws, contradicting the modern notion of secularism. The conversation dives into the incorporation doctrine and its implications for religious freedom, urging a reevaluation of the evolving dynamics between church and state in today’s diverse society.
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Founders Allowed State Religious Establishments
- Early America permitted state-established religions and blasphemy/Sabbath laws as local matters rather than a federal prohibition.
- Timon Cline argues the Establishment Clause originally protected state autonomy, not national secularism.
Incorporation Nationalized Religious Policy
- Incorporation via the 14th Amendment reversed the original federalist balance and nationalized religious policy after WWII.
- Cline calls this a weaponized mechanism that produced national uniformity and public atheism.
14th Amendment Did Not Intend First-Amendment Incorporation
- The 14th Amendment's drafters did not aim to incorporate the First Amendment's religious limits against states.
- Cline notes postwar courts created new doctrine that reversed the founding order.
