Part One: The Zizians: How Harry Potter Fanfic Inspired a Death Cult
Mar 11, 2025
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David Boree, co-host of 'My Mama Told Me', joins to dive into the dark tale of the Zizians, a group tied to bizarre occurrences and violence. They trace how fandom, particularly Harry Potter fanfic, intersects with real-life tragedy, specifically the killing of a Border Patrol officer. The conversation goes deeper into how online communities can evolve into dangerous cults, the absurdity of celebrity politics, and the unsettling philosophies influencing rationalist ideologies surrounding AI, showcasing the thin line between fiction and reality.
The Zizians, initially part of the rationalist subculture, illustrate how online communities can transform theories into justifications for violence.
Sensationalist media coverage often misrepresents the Zizians by focusing on their veganism and trans identities, obscuring the underlying ideological issues.
Fictional narratives, particularly a Harry Potter fanfic, significantly shaped the Zizians' belief systems, blurring lines between entertainment and extreme ideologies.
Deep dives
Deranged Writings and Quasi Cult Dynamics
The episode delves into the bizarre case of a group connected to troubling acts of violence, primarily consisting of individuals from a rationalist subculture who have converged in online forums. Their collective ideologies revolve around a unique blend of game theory, AI ethics, and unconventional interpretations of social dynamics. This assembly, referred to as the Zizians, has been mischaracterized in the media as a cult, often inaccurately labeled by sensationalist headlines that emphasize their veganism and trans identities rather than the underlying causes of their actions. The discussion emphasizes this group's emergent psychologies, shaped significantly by their internet interactions, and raises critical questions about communal vulnerabilities when overly invested in abstract ideologies.
Influence of Online Communities
The episode examines how internet communities can foster extreme beliefs by limiting exposure to alternative viewpoints and reinforcing certain ideologies. It highlights the phenomenon where members of the Zizians, drawn together by their shared interests in rationalism and discussions about AI, become increasingly deranged due to insular group dynamics. The narrative contends that as these individuals deepen their commitment to online theories, they often lose touch with empirical realities, culminating in drastic behaviors and justifications for violence. This disconnect raises insight into the dangers posed by tightly knit digital communities, where the ideas that circulate can take on a life of their own, spiraling towards irrational outcomes.
The Role of Rationalism and Effective Altruism
In exploring the roots of the Zizian ideology, the episode details how rationalism, initially aimed at logical reasoning and ethical AI development, shifted into a justification for extreme actions. Adherents began to prioritize the future benefits of AI over present-day ethical considerations, leading them to dismiss altruistic efforts as shortsighted. The episode discusses how this mindset contributed to the dangerous belief that harming others could be justified if it served the larger goal of advancing technology for the greater good. By tracing this ideological transformation, the conversation cautions against the moral pitfalls hidden within seemingly pragmatic worldviews.
Culmination of Fictional Fantasies
The narrative further posits that a significant portion of the Zizians' beliefs were influenced by fictional works, particularly a popular Harry Potter fan fiction that romanticizes rationality as a means to an end. This fan fiction not only veiled complex psychological concepts in an accessible format but also served as a foundational text for community discussions around personal ethics and AI. Such reliance on fictional narratives illustrates how cult-like behavior can emerge from combining entertainment with serious philosophical issues, leading to distorted realities among followers. The discussion emphasizes that their ideologies became dangerously intertwined with narratives they've internalized, thereby blurring the line between fiction and practical belief systems.
Real-World Consequences and the Need for Awareness
Ultimately, the episode underscores that misinformation and misinterpretation of technological and ethical dilemmas can lead to real-world violence, as highlighted by the tragic incidents linked to the Zizians. The case illustrates the potential for abstract theoretical discussions to dislodge moral reasoning when individuals become overly invested in them. There is a pressing call for greater awareness of how online ideologies can manifest in harmful ways, especially when entangled with personal identity and communal belonging. The conclusion urges listeners to consider the ramifications of their own beliefs and the potentially cascading effects they may have on society if unchecked.
Earlier this year a Border Patrol officer was killed in a shoot-out with people who have been described as members of a trans vegan AI death cult. But who are the Zizians, really? Robert sits down with David Gborie to trace their development, from part of the Bay Area Rationalist subculture to killers.