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The A to Z English Podcast
Topic Talk | The Jack & "Chill Podcast Episode 06
Jan 8, 2024
The podcast explores the challenges of growing an audience for a podcast or social media channel. They discuss the importance of capturing viewers' attention in the first three seconds and the difficulty of building a community. They emphasize the need for developing language skills in real-life communication and the importance of creating resonating content on social media. The podcast also explores the shift towards attention-grabbing material and creating an interactive experience for listeners.
37:24
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Quick takeaways
- Growing an audience for niche content is challenging due to competition and short attention spans.
- Eye-catching thumbnails and capturing the audience's attention within seconds are crucial for success in the online space.
Deep dives
The Challenges of Growing a Social Media Travel Page
The podcast explores the difficulties of growing a social media travel page and the challenges faced by content creators in niches like language learning and travel. It is discussed how the saturated market makes it hard to stand out due to the abundance of content, both quality and attention-grabbing. Additionally, the short attention span of users is highlighted, with the measurement of success now being based on three-second views. Building a community and engaged fan base is identified as the hardest part of the process, requiring time and active participation in social media groups.
The Importance of Attention-Grabbing Content
The episode emphasizes the significance of attention-grabbing content in the online space, specifically focusing on the importance of thumbnails and hooks. It is mentioned that eye-catching thumbnails are crucial in attracting clicks and views, even if the content itself may not be of the highest quality. The three-second rule is highlighted, indicating that capturing the audience's attention within the first few seconds is paramount. The hosts discuss the idea that content that evokes curiosity and shock value tends to perform well, underscoring the need to adapt to the preferences of young social media users.
Developing Parasocial Relationships with the Audience
The episode delves into the concept of parasocial relationships, where creators and audiences develop a sense of connection and friendship. The hosts share personal experiences and the impact of parasocial relationships in their own lives, such as feeling emotional when a favorite podcaster passed away. The significance of this phenomenon in an atomized and isolated society is discussed, with parasocial relationships helping to alleviate loneliness and foster a sense of camaraderie. The suggestion is made that personal connection, showing faces, and breaking the fourth wall could enhance the success of the podcast and travel blog.
Transitioning to a Video Podcast Format
The hosts contemplate the idea of transitioning the podcast to a video format and the potential benefits it may bring. Recording video along with audio is seen as a way to engage viewers further and establish a more personal connection. The plan to upload podcast episodes with video on YouTube is mentioned as a possible resolution for the year, allowing audiences to have a visual experience while listening or watching. It is suggested that the addition of video will place the podcast ahead of the curve and help attract more viewers by providing a visual medium to accompany the audio content.
In this episode of The Jack & "Chill Podcast, the two hosts discuss the difficulty of growing an audience for a podcast, a vlog, or a You Tube channel.
Transcript:
00:00:00
Xochitl
You are listening to the Jack and Chill podcast.
00:00:14
Jack
All right. So so. So tell me about your, uh, your travel page, your social media.
00:00:20
Jack
Travel page.
00:00:21
Xochitl
Like the struggle is so real with trying to grow social media and you know you and I have experienced this before because we're trying to grow A-Z English podcast. And the complication is really cut to grow, especially for like niches like.
00:00:37
Xochitl
Like language, learning, podcasts, or travel pages or whatever, because there's a lot of quality content and bizarre content and like attention grabbing content that's competing with your content and everyone's attention span has become so short. Because I'm guilty of this too. Like, I'll see a real or like a video or a post.
00:00:59
Xochitl
On my Instagram and I'll like it, but I won't finish watching it. I'll just, like, give it a like or save it.
00:01:04
Xochitl
For later, which I never go back to and.
00:01:07
Xochitl
And just keep.
00:01:08
Xochitl
Like I won't sit there and watch.
00:01:09
Xochitl
A 5 second video.
00:01:12
Xochitl
For three seconds and and that's how they measure it. To promote your videos. How many people? How many? 3 second views did you get? At least in Instagram and Facebook?
00:01:23
Xochitl
That's how they promote your content is based on the amount of three second views you're getting, because if you're able to capture some of the attention for three seconds, that means that your real is classified as interesting enough to keep showing it to more people. That's the metric. Now is 3 seconds of your time.
00:01:40
Jack
Goodness, that's good.
00:01:41
Jack
Grief. I know exactly you're talking about. It's like.
00:01:47
Jack
It it almost takes like you almost have to be delusional, like crazy to to even think that that you can be successful in this space. You know what I mean? It's it. It takes. Yeah. It takes like a level of like self delusion where you just kind of trick yourself into thinking you're going to be successful.
00:02:07
Jack
Because it's so saturated with like.
00:02:12
Jack
Like you said, quality.
00:02:13
Jack
Content and bad quality content you know like.
00:02:17
Jack
It's it's a.
00:02:17
Jack
Mix of everything and when you jump in there, you're just like your one tiny little star in the Galaxy. Like there's no there's, you know, and then you just from there, you have to just start building.
00:02:33
Jack
Some sort of fan base, you know, and the only way to do that is by participating in social media, because if you go into these groups and you just spam.
00:02:45
Jack
Them you'll be. That's worse than not promoting your podcast at all, you know, like, yeah, I'll get banned right from the group right away. And everyone will look at me like, oh, that person is just a they're just a spammer, you know? So what you have to do is you have to get involved in these groups and you have to become like a member.
00:02:51
Xochitl
Wait, you're good, ban.
00:03:06
Jack
And that it takes a lot of time right? To like answer, reply to emails, reply to social media posts and Facebook posts and stuff like that. And then after you do that for.
00:03:18
Jack
Like a month. If somebody asks you like, hey, by the way, do you know a good podcast to to learn English? And then you could say ohh yeah, I know a good podcast. It's called the A-Z English podcast and you could then finally drop it, but you have to.
00:03:33
Jack
Do it in that.
00:03:33
Jack
Very subtle kind of way, but all that work and all those hours of like.
00:03:39
Jack
Time I spent, you know, chatting with with people in the groups just to become a member and accept it into the group so that I could, you know, and it's it's really like that's the stuff that's the hard part making the podcast is easy. You.
00:03:54
Jack
Know you just.
00:03:56
Jack
Get together and record an episode. It's fun. Editing is great. Adding the music and that sort of stuff. It seems like that would be the hard part, but that is the absolute easiest part of the process. The hardest part is.
00:04:11
Jack
Building a community.
00:04:12
Jack
So I like how did you.
00:04:14
Jack
Build your community in in your.
00:04:16
Jack
For your Facebook Travel travel blog.
00:04:19
Xochitl
I just see like I haven't really.
00:04:22
Xochitl
Done any of the stuff you've done, like go in local chats or anything like that, or post about it. I think honestly, I think one of the things where we fell short both in the 8 is the English.
00:04:32
Xochitl
Podcast you do a.
00:04:33
Xochitl
Lot of work yourself like marketing.
00:04:35
Xochitl
The page but I.
00:04:36
Xochitl
Just think we're not shameless enough, Jack. Like, we don't have that totally shameless promotional attitude.
00:04:41
Xochitl
That a lot of people.
00:04:43
Xochitl
A lot of social media influencers have.
00:04:45
Xochitl
Like, we're kind of we're not.
00:04:47
Xochitl
Shy about our work per se.
00:04:49
Xochitl
But we definitely have like.
00:04:51
Xochitl
A certain level of decorum that just does not exist in this new level of competitive marketing age.
00:04:58
Xochitl
Like people do, disband the chats and hope that someone clicks on their content and hopes that someone notices their content and they have no decorum about it.
00:05:08
Jack
No shame, no humility. You're just like.
00:05:12
Xochitl
Yeah, they don't care.
00:05:13
Xochitl
How they come off at all, they just want the.
00:05:15
Xochitl
Clicks want the views.
00:05:16
Xochitl
And they kind of follow that old saying like.
00:05:20
Xochitl
What is it? No, there's no such thing.
00:05:23
Xochitl
As bad publicity.
00:05:24
Jack
Right.
00:05:25
Xochitl
A lot of people really live both of words and and I struggle. Yeah. And so for me, I I have been sharing my, you know, my Facebook page. I did share it on one chat. I'm part of a group called. So I guess I lied. I do do it a little bit. I'm part of a group called Viajeros and.
00:05:43
Xochitl
AKA which is like a travel group for Oaxaca.
00:05:48
Xochitl
And I was part.
00:05:49
Xochitl
Of this community for a long time and.
00:05:51
Xochitl
One day.
00:05:52
Xochitl
The administrator gave people a chance to share their social media, so that was one way that I got a few of these on my Instagram, on my Facebook and another way is through my networking opportunities like I've worked in the tourism industry. So of course when we exchange social media information.
00:06:09
Xochitl
I have gotten some followers through there.
00:06:13
Xochitl
And then I do share like with my Facebook friends.
00:06:19
Xochitl
I've started to because I.
00:06:23
Xochitl
Used to not. It's like I used to feel embarrassed about sharing my content to my Facebook friends. But.
00:06:28
Xochitl
Now it's like that's a big.
00:06:31
Xochitl
Chunk of people that could watch and share and support your content, you know, and I do notice that the people who are the most shameless or have the least shame.
00:06:42
Jack
You're the most to have the most success, right?
00:06:45
Xochitl
Having a success. There's another guy on the viejitos group and.
00:06:48
Xochitl
He just he.
00:06:49
Xochitl
Used to spam basically spam the chat and.
00:06:52
Xochitl
He would like literally.
00:06:55
Xochitl
Information hostage of people. They ask a general question, and if you need to answer, you said I'll tell you the answer if.
00:06:59
Xochitl
You can prove.
00:07:00
Xochitl
That you're following my Facebook page.
00:07:02
Jack
Yeah. You sent me your.
00:07:04
Jack
E-mail. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07:05
Xochitl
Well, you like send me a screen capture the fact that it's on his page and and I think he gained like $10,000 this year alone, but he was famous about it, but he really did. I would never do something like that. I'd never be like I'm not giving you information unless you send me a screenshot of you.
00:07:13
Jack
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:24
Xochitl
Following my Facebook page like it just seems like so like for us we would say like in poor.
00:07:30
Xochitl
Taste, you know.
00:07:32
Jack
Yeah, no, you and.
00:07:33
Jack
I would never do that. We would never hold anyone or any information hostage if someone, if one of our listeners came to us, you know, because we're just like.
00:07:42
Jack
I mean, I don't think we do. We don't do this for the fame or or the the fortune or whatever. I think we just do it because we enjoy the process and you know that's that's not. But I I would love to to see the the podcast grow to.
00:08:00
Jack
The level of like those other major English language learning podcasts like I I wanted, I want to achieve that. I just want to do it in like an honest way.
00:08:11
Jack
Where and I.
00:08:12
Jack
And I'm not saying that those those.
00:08:13
Jack
Podcasts weren't, you know, honest and.
00:08:18
Jack
I I guess what I'm saying is like they I think they were there early. They were early adapters. They kind of figured it out early. They saw something where we're late adapters. You know we we're jumping in into the lake when it's already full of of people you know, it's just like there's not, there's nothing special.
00:08:24
Xochitl
Right.
00:08:38
Jack
You know, we're trying to.
00:08:39
Jack
Differentiate ourselves because I like to think of the A-Z as.
00:08:43
Jack
Like the we're kind of.
00:08:44
Jack
The red headed stepchild of the.
00:08:47
Jack
Language learning base because we do things.
00:08:50
Jack
A little bit different. You know, it's like it's not as clean and refined and and like.
00:08:55
Xochitl
We're not as organized. I think we.
00:08:57
Xochitl
Have a lot of heart though.
00:08:58
Xochitl
Like our community is.
00:08:59
Xochitl
Sincere we actually care a lot.
00:09:01
Xochitl
What our listeners, we know our listeners like on our personal level, those that are in the sub groups or the WeChat groups and Jack, you put a lot of effort into interacting with people. I was having so many issues with WhatsApp so.
00:09:13
Xochitl
I haven't been.
00:09:14
Xochitl
Able to be as active as I.
00:09:15
Xochitl
Used to be and want to.
00:09:16
Xochitl
Be on chat but.
00:09:19
Jack
I'm I'm very close with a lot of our listeners in, in the WhatsApp group for sure and they they take some of our classes, our world English online, Google meets classes that we teach. So you know our our I know a lot of the listeners that listen to our podcast, some of them have that have been on our show.
00:09:39
Jack
You know they've they've come on in.
00:09:40
Jack
Guests but uh. But when you're talking about like podcasting, we're we have to scale it up to you want thousands and thousands of of listeners a day, you know, thousands of thousands of people listening each day. And you know, we're we're in the hundreds of people.
00:10:01
Jack
Which is still I.
00:10:02
Jack
Mean that's a lot of people. Imagine A room.
00:10:03
Jack
Full of 100 and 5200.
00:10:05
Jack
People, and they're all there for you, you know, like that would be amazing, you know.
00:10:06
Xochitl
Yeah, it's, it's.
00:10:12
Xochitl
Yeah, it's not like we're professors. I mean, you're a professor at a university, right? It's kind of.
00:10:16
Xochitl
Like that? Like being a Professor university and your class is successful and you have like 450 people. Your class is easy. A known as an easy Angel.
00:10:16
Jack
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:26
Jack
Well, I would never, I don't think.
00:10:27
Jack
I could ever get a class full of 150 people at my own university, but yeah, I mean, just standing. You know, if I were in a room with with 300 people and they were all there to listen to me.
00:10:38
Jack
To you and me, talk, I I would be like, you know, honored it would be it'd be intimidating, you know? So it's not. It's not like we're, you know, it's not like.
00:10:50
Jack
We're we're not a.
00:10:50
Jack
Failing podcast. We're just I think we're stuck in like a kind of middle zone where I feel like we're ready to break through.
00:10:58
Jack
We just need some kind of push or some kind of.
00:11:04
Jack
It's it's always, I guess what you always have to do is kind of keep tweaking and you keep adjusting until you find the right frequency and then you and and you can resonate with with an audience and and break through the noise I guess is what you.
00:11:21
발표자
I think.
00:11:23
Xochitl
We are a little unorganized because we've kind of.
00:11:25
Xochitl
Been seeing what?
00:11:26
Xochitl
Sticks like it's a process. When you start up a podcast or social media page, you publish a lot of different types of content, and then you see what performs the best and you kind of try to repeat that formula in a structured way to ensure your success, you know.
00:11:45
Jack
Well, I'm. I'm good friends with uh with Robin Shaw Shaw English online.
00:11:49
Jack
And he, you know, the.
00:11:51
Jack
Advice he always gives me is testing. He's always testing, testing new. You know, sticking with the stuff that works and then testing something new and and because you never know when you might just hit something.
00:12:04
Jack
That's absolutely.
00:12:07
Jack
Just resonates with people on such a intense level, and that's that's what I think we're always doing is, you know, couple episodes a week are are kind of in our wheelhouse, they're comfortable. And then a couple episodes are kind of outside the box. And so, yeah, even after we, we've been doing this podcast.
00:12:27
Jack
For you and I have been doing it for about a year, Kevin and I did it for about 6 months, so together the podcast has been around for a year and a half. That's relatively young for a podcast.
00:12:39
Jack
I mean, it doesn't.
00:12:41
Jack
I I think I don't think we're.
00:12:44
Jack
I think the.
00:12:44
Jack
Success that we've had with this podcast is is above average for a a podcast our age. That's my my my thinking I could be wrong. You know, obviously like famous people. You know, people that are celebrities and they start a podcast. It's it starts off you're already.
00:13:02
Jack
On a different level.
00:13:05
Jack
You know, but they're that's cause they're they're leveraging their fame that they had and bringing it into the podcast space. When you're 2 unknown people like us. And we're just starting from the ground up and building something. What we've accomplished is actually quite admirable. I think like it's really it's something special.
00:13:25
Jack
And to be able to, you know, keep growing that in a space that's already saturated with a lot of a lot of people trying to do the exact same thing that we're trying to do.
00:13:38
Jack
That's why I tried. That's why I'm I'm trying to.
00:13:41
Jack
Like I always say, this expression is zig when everyone else sags. You know, like that's the that's kind of the.
00:13:48
Jack
The theory behind this.
00:13:49
Jack
Podcast is like.
00:13:50
Jack
If everybody's going to be doing this.
00:13:51
Jack
Kind of one way style. Why don't we?
00:13:55
Jack
Do it a different way.
00:13:56
Jack
You know, so that's why we kind of more free free form conversations that weren't highly edited and we kind of speak at a normal speed and we we challenge our listeners to, you know, hold on for the roller coaster ride that is our conversation.
00:13:57
Xochitl
Right.
00:14:14
Jack
And that's.
00:14:15
Xochitl
You know, because if they can, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, Jack. I just. If they can do so, you know that they're really applying their skills on a new level. That it when they come to the US or when they use their English language skills or when they use their speaking skills or their listening skills. You know that they are going to be.
00:14:18
Jack
No, no, no, go.
00:14:18
발표자
Ahead, go ahead.
00:14:34
Xochitl
Able to hold their own.
00:14:35
Xochitl
In a real life.
00:14:38
Jack
Yes, I I think that's really important. I don't do, I don't really do teacher talk even even in my classroom. I just don't believe in it. I think my students are better served listening to me speak at the rate that the normal rate that I that I normally speak at and and be prepared for what they're actually going to encounter.
00:14:59
Jack
In the United States or Canada or England, then opposed to some kind of like you know.
00:15:06
Jack
Baby talk that I use in the classroom so that everybody can understand.
00:15:12
Jack
But when you get into the real world, no one's gonna do that. You know, baby talk thing for you that's sheltered, you know, talk. They're gonna speak at a normal speed, and you're gonna have to to be prepared.
00:15:24
Jack
For that, so I I don't.
00:15:26
Jack
Know I that's.
00:15:27
Jack
That's always been my theory, my philosophy.
00:15:33
Jack
We try to.
00:15:33
Jack
Slow things down a little bit. The problem with you and me is that we we're fast talkers, you know? And so, you know, it's probably some people might tune into our podcast and go.
00:15:48
Jack
Wow, they they talk so fast, I can't even, you know, this is way beyond my my level. So you know, that's something that we, you and I could probably work on is like trying to slow down a little bit. But like I said, I don't really believe in that. I kind of believe in, you know.
00:16:04
Jack
Learning the way it really is, the reality is, is always going to be more, more beneficial than some sort of sheltered, you know, English that we can give to them and and make them feel good in the moment. But then when they when they're faced with the real.
00:16:24
Jack
Speaking situations real authentic language learning like English speaking experiences, they're gonna have, they're gonna struggle.
00:16:33
Jack
So I that's just my my my feeling, but maybe we're off off topic now a little bit, I don't know.
00:16:40
Xochitl
A little, but it's OK, you know, I think I think it all ties into the whole.
00:16:45
Xochitl
You know social media aspect and then another another last question I have for you about you know growing your social media personally I found in my journey with social media that content it's like.
00:17:01
Xochitl
Uh, there's a couple of reasons I feel like we're starting a page. It's not necessarily about, as you said, it's like the delusion of success and whatnot. But for me and for you.
00:17:10
Xochitl
I believe as.
00:17:11
Xochitl
Well, more than.
00:17:13
Xochitl
Caring about success, I think it's like we.
00:17:16
Xochitl
We enjoy what we're doing and success to us means that people are also enjoying and responding to what we're doing and so it's nice to feel that like recognition and one thing I have noticed is that sometimes content that I never thought.
00:17:36
Xochitl
Would perform so well.
00:17:39
Xochitl
It like it does really well. And then content that I really didn't try that hard on or that.
00:17:46
Xochitl
You know, that does really well. And then content that I really put my whole heart into or that I thought would perform amazingly, it kind of fell short and UM.
00:17:57
Xochitl
The social media.
00:17:58
Jack
Space is completely upside down from what I learned as a communications major as an undergrad, like when when I was young. If you make something good, people will find.
00:18:09
Jack
Need it. You know what I mean? Like, if it's good people. Now, if you make something good. But it has a bad thumbnail, they'll never find it.
00:18:13
발표자
Right.
00:18:19
Jack
Like but if you have a good thumbnail, a great thumbnail and mediocre content.
00:18:19
Xochitl
The way.
00:18:27
Jack
That that'll perform better than, uh. So, right. So like you said that 3 second thing is really important. It's like if you can't grab, if you can't grab the audience's attention in three seconds and.
00:18:42
Jack
I don't know. Maybe you know, I'm thinking like.
00:18:45
Jack
How does that translate to the podcasting space? Because I'm talking about the YouTube space and Facebook space where.
00:18:50
Jack
You are with your.
00:18:52
Jack
Your travel blog your your travel page because it's all about like a good a good thumbnail grabbing the attention.
00:19:00
Jack
And then people will watch your content and the content does. I've seen such like, mediocre kind of just boring.
00:19:08
Jack
Sent get huge numbers.
00:19:13
Jack
And I'm just totally baffled by it. Like.
00:19:16
Jack
I'm I don't.
00:19:16
Jack
Understand it. Why is that video so amazing performing so well and a lot of times it's like YouTube will promote things.
00:19:28
Jack
Internally, like, they'll test things and stuff, so your YouTube might grab your video and show it to 100,000 people.
00:19:37
Xochitl
Right.
00:19:37
Jack
And just to see how it performs.
00:19:40
Jack
Just a test.
00:19:41
Jack
It's just part of an algorithm and.
00:19:46
Jack
And so it's nothing to do with you, it's just YouTube kind of randomly choosing stuff. And I think Facebook probably does the same thing right? It'll it'll. It'll test it and take your your stuff and show it to 100,000 people. And then if it doesn't perform well, then they'll they'll throw you away for a while.
00:20:05
Jack
Well, and then you go to the back of the line. It's like you had your chance. Your, your, your. Yeah, you blew it because your your content didn't meet the standard that people want. So now you go back in line and you start over again, you know, in the podcasting space is a little bit different because there is no like thumbnail.
00:20:27
Jack
You know, we just have our logo and that's what so people if that don't know, our podcasts are just scrolling through. And I think we have a good logo. I think the logo is nice.
00:20:38
Jack
I think maybe in something I could try and I'm just thinking out loud is not do any sort of opening music, just jump right into the conversation.
00:20:51
발표자
Right.
00:20:52
Jack
UM.
00:20:54
발표자
So I might I.
00:20:54
Jack
Might try that this week, you know, and just and just bring have closing.
00:20:59
발표자
I think.
00:20:59
Jack
But we don't.
00:21:00
Jack
Need the introduction to the podcast? We can just get right into the conversation immediately so that people don't have to wait, you know 15 seconds because like you said, 3 seconds is is is all you need for a real well 15 seconds is a lifetime, you know.
00:21:18
Xochitl
Yeah, I think.
00:21:19
Jack
In this modern.
00:21:21
Xochitl
Jack, I think what you were taught as a communications major and even what I was taught as an English major, even though I just recently went through college, a lot of things that were taught and that are professors believe are outdated. And I think it's because of this. We were taught that there's like an introduction, you know, like a.
00:21:40
Xochitl
A hook IMAX and an ending and now?
00:21:43
Xochitl
All you have is your.
00:21:44
Xochitl
Hook. That's pretty much it.
00:21:47
Xochitl
It's like there's so much competition now that all you have going for you is your hook. If your content isn't like hook after hook after hook, you're flatlined. It's just not going the way that it needs to be.
00:22:01
Jack
I do, yeah.
00:22:04
Xochitl
And I think also with content like it's no longer what's good or what's quality content and what's bad and what's poor quality content, it's all about what's attention grabbing like. If you see a thumbnail of a girl.
00:22:18
Xochitl
Eating the raw octopus from Korea like you're going to get like a million clicks on that versus you might have a really great video of someone, a guy or girl talking about like oh, this sashimi is really delicious and they might actually go into detail and crack the whole quality content about it.
00:22:38
Xochitl
But because it's not like attention grabbing, it's not like what the heck are that? Is that person eating what's going on? Like, what does that taste like? The curiosity and the tension grabbing aspect of it is like pretty much all we have, like, shock value is a huge social media now.
00:22:55
Jack
Like 3.
00:22:56
Jack
Three teenagers or young 20s people who are attractive laughing and giggling while trying to eat octopus versus like a a chef who's in his 40s. But he's like a works at like A2 Michelin star restaurant.
00:23:16
Jack
You know or whatever.
00:23:17
Jack
Explaining the delicacy of that of of eating it, you know, one is like.
00:23:25
Jack
One is what the first version of that is like, fast food. You know what I mean? Like entertainment. It's just like McDonald's. The second one video is, like, actually has information and knowledge and perspective. And that's like a like a nutritious meal. But where does everybody go? You know, everyone gravitates towards the like.
00:23:45
Jack
Junk food, you know, just give me.
00:23:47
Xochitl
Right.
00:23:49
Xochitl
Yeah, because at the end, sorry.
00:23:51
Xochitl
Jack, I didn't cut you off there.
00:23:52
Xochitl
But at the end.
00:23:53
Xochitl
All about your audience, and I feel like audience for high quality, high production content like maybe the chef at the Michelin restaurant. That's for like an older generation and the people who are scrolling Facebook wheels, Instagram wheels, I know a lot of people say only old people.
00:24:09
Xochitl
Facebook. But that's not true. I would never young and I use it. People who are on there scrolling those pages are mostly young people, and they're gonna watch the weird stuff, the shock value, stuff, the funny fun content they want.
00:24:27
Xochitl
That easy to digest, short, entertaining content above anything else, and they prioritize shock value and they prioritize. Find their content and something that gives them a laugh or something that weirds them out. And that's kind of the formula that you have to follow when you want to hook people these days. And you know talking.
00:24:47
Xochitl
This is just like made me think so much about how I run my page because I kind of run it as a soothing or an informational content page. And I think if I want to pick up popularities here, I need to focus a lot.
00:24:58
Xochitl
On like shock.
00:25:03
Xochitl
Like shock, all you find the interesting stuff.
00:25:06
Jack
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
00:25:07
Jack
It's it's all about that first.
00:25:09
Jack
If if you can, I don't know.
00:25:11
Jack
Do you make?
00:25:11
Jack
Thumbnails and stuff like that for your videos or.
00:25:15
Xochitl
I do. I usually use like.
00:25:17
Xochitl
If I'm doing one on.
00:25:20
Xochitl
Like I did one recently yesterday, like the best news I saw in 2023 and so my thumbnail was just a nice view. And yes, it's pretty and stuff, but I think that kind of suiting content doesn't perform as well as something where a person can't tell what they're looking at and they're so intrigued they want to click on the video.
00:25:40
Jack
I'm. I'm not. I'm not like a I'm not good at at making thumbnails, but you know better than I used to be. But yeah, I would. I would do.
00:25:48
Jack
Like take a.
00:25:49
Jack
Little thumbnail tutorial on YouTube and then start thumb making thumbnails for your videos and see if that doesn't like.
00:25:58
Jack
You know if.
00:25:59
Jack
You if you get some of those like.
00:26:01
Jack
Some of those.
00:26:02
Jack
Kind of thumbnails where you're like, you know.
00:26:04
Jack
I don't know. Making a facial.
00:26:06
Jack
Expression of surprise or whatever, you know like.
00:26:08
Jack
Oh, and then you know, some background.
00:26:11
Jack
Or you know what, I.
00:26:12
Jack
Mean like something where people?
00:26:13
Jack
Are just like they they.
00:26:14
Jack
Have to click on it because they want to know like what's what is. What's this about, you know? Yeah.
00:26:19
Xochitl
Hi this is about.
00:26:21
Xochitl
And the last thing that I think would really up our content for both the ABC English podcasts and my.
00:26:30
Xochitl
Is putting our faces out there more? I think this year we do have the goal once my Internet teacher improves of having our faces on the podcast and posting it on YouTube and.
00:26:41
Xochitl
For me like.
00:26:42
Xochitl
Including my face more in my travel content because I've noticed that it doesn't really matter. I'm not saying that.
00:26:48
Xochitl
You or I aren't attractive, but it doesn't really matter necessarily how attractive a person is. I've seen plenty of like 40 year old, much bunkers and stuff like and travel bloggers. He's still really successful, but it's like people want to connect with that.
00:26:57
발표자
OK.
00:27:03
Xochitl
Personal well, like on a personal level. And when you see a bunch of pretty scenes or a bunch of pictures of food, but you don't really see anyone eating it. Like there's so many successful videos of just like a person eating food and what, like, it's just weird to me. It was like, oh, I took all these, like, nice shots.
00:27:06
Jack
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:23
Xochitl
Of the food. But there's no pictures of me eating it. And it's like my content didn't perform that well and there's these ones and this girl, just like eating crap and like they performed really well. But it's like, I think people just develop a parent social relationship, which for our listeners who.
00:27:38
Xochitl
You don't understand what that means. It's like when you feel that the person on the screen is your friend, basically, and in this information age like I think.
00:27:50
Xochitl
That's kind of an important aspect. They don't want to.
00:27:53
Xochitl
Sound weird about that? Like.
00:27:54
Xochitl
I don't think it's necessarily always a negative thing.
00:27:57
Jack
No, no, I.
00:27:57
Xochitl
It can be really.
00:27:59
Jack
The parasocial that I'm glad you brought that up.
00:28:02
Jack
Because that's that's huge.
00:28:04
Jack
That is like that. You are the in on the A-Z English podcast. If we do a YouTube channel and just do our podcast but we record video and I upload it there, the the viewer is now the third person in the room. You know what I mean? Like you you're you're sitting, you're sitting in that third. There's like a third empty.
00:28:25
Jack
Share and and we call it. Sometimes we sometimes we.
00:28:27
Jack
Call it the 4th.
00:28:28
Jack
Wall and you know, you know I'm talking about like, you know, you know and.
00:28:31
Xochitl
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:34
Xochitl
Oh yeah.
00:28:35
Jack
Breaking the 4th wall would be like we're talking to you as as like the the.
00:28:39
Jack
The third person in the.
00:28:41
Jack
And I had. I had this huge pair of social relationship with this, with this podcast where the IT was a politics podcast, right?
00:28:53
Jack
And it really.
00:28:54
Jack
Shaped my politics, this one broadcaster this that got one of the podcasters. The guy on the podcast was named. His name was.
00:29:01
Jack
Michael brooks.
00:29:02
Jack
And and his his insight and intelligence on the political landscape and everything informed me for years. Like I would just and he and he was also wickedly funny. So it was like this really enjoyable experience where I was learning tons about American politics and foreign foreign affairs.
00:29:23
Jack
And then also laughing hysterically. Well, suddenly he died one day. He's 37 years old. Aneurysm's gone.
00:29:34
Jack
Hit hit me like a shovel. Like I swear to you, I have never. I didn't realize that I had a parasocial relationship with this person because it it hurt like a friend dying for three days. You know, it was. It was just like a like a gut punch.
00:29:54
Jack
You know, I I cried like you know what?
00:29:57
Jack
I mean like and.
00:29:58
Jack
And I realized like this is weird. I'm crying over the death of a person that doesn't even know I'm exist. That doesn't.
00:30:05
Jack
Even know I'm alive?
00:30:07
발표자
Right.
00:30:07
Jack
Yet he was so open and so honest, and so intelligent, and it's such a good broadcaster or podcaster that he made me feel like we were friends. Like, that's a that's a special talent. You know, people that can do that. And so that parasocial relationship especially.
00:30:26
Jack
In a time where we're so atomized and so like fragmented as like a, you know, as a, as a culture, as a society, right?
00:30:33
Xochitl
Anxiety jam.
00:30:36
Jack
And that people are looking for that. And so I think you're right, if you're, if you start swimming towards those waters, you're going to have more success. You know what I mean? Like and. And. And I I don't think it's like I don't think it necessarily is.
00:30:52
Jack
A bad thing?
00:30:53
Jack
I don't what?
00:30:53
Jack
Do you think do you?
00:30:54
Jack
Think a parasocial.
00:30:55
Jack
Relationship is, I mean I I don't think like.
00:30:58
Jack
That should be the number one objective of your channel of your, of your, of your.
00:31:03
Jack
Age. But like if it happens if people just feel like they become your friend, I think that's OK.
00:31:04
Xochitl
Right.
00:31:11
Jack
I guess it's.
00:31:12
Jack
Just up to what you're you know what you're willing to to what you're comfortable with. You know what I mean? Like.
00:31:18
Xochitl
Yeah, I think that a parasocial relationship gets a bad rap, but I don't think it's a bad thing. I think that where society is so fragmented and there's still a lot of isolation and effects from the pandemic that it can help you feel less lonely. I remember during the pandemic I was a huge fan of Emma.
00:31:32
Jack
Right.
00:31:38
Xochitl
Chamberlain and she's a YouTuber. Famous YouTuber who?
00:31:43
Xochitl
Breaks the 4th wall really often and makes you feel like you're there with her wherever she goes, like you're hanging out with her or you're going on this adventure with her, or you're just cooking with her in her kitchen and it's just like people, creators who are successful.
00:32:00
Xochitl
And connecting with their audience on that level and helping people feel less lonely and helping people feel more connected to them as creators and as people are usually the ones who are really successful.
00:32:15
Xochitl
And I think it's a big aspect of why.
00:32:21
Xochitl
When TV was invented, radio died out as well. It's like being able to see someone and.
00:32:25
Jack
Right.
00:32:30
Xochitl
The amount of love that people could feel for a television star or celebrity because you're seeing that person and you're following their career talk shows. For example. I mean, podcasts have existed since invention of television, and they were talk shows before, basically, and they were, well, really successful because people were sitting at their homes and they felt validated in their opinions.
00:32:51
Xochitl
Or they thought they were learning something.
00:32:52
Xochitl
Any shows or they're just being entertained and having a good time. And I think that that level of human connection is what we seek and we use technology for that purpose moving forward through social media. And I think that's what makes certain social media pages so successful.
00:33:09
Jack
Yeah, I Robin Shaw of Shaw English online is he's kind of been my North star when it comes to.
00:33:16
Jack
Like social media and stuff like that, I respect his opinions a lot and he said to to me for for you and I and for you and me or for you and I to have success in in the space we need to get our our YouTube channel up with video because right now like a lot of the the.
00:33:36
Jack
Because that would put us ahead of the curve.
00:33:38
Jack
Little bit.
00:33:39
Jack
And I'll tell you why.
00:33:41
Jack
So we jumped into the audio space, which is like you said is.
00:33:44
Jack
Is like going back to old timey radio, you know.
00:33:47
Jack
Well, the only difference is you can just listen to whenever you want, but that's what a podcast is. It's a radio show. I mean, the talk to talk about like, you know, the antiquated like, you know.
00:33:59
Jack
Old you know.
00:34:01
Jack
Yeah. So we hopped into space and we did we.
00:34:04
Jack
Did all right, you know?
00:34:06
Jack
In order to.
00:34:07
Jack
Take it to the next level and a.
00:34:09
Jack
Lot of these.
00:34:09
Jack
Podcasts don't do this is start recording your podcast with video.
00:34:15
Jack
Putting it on YouTube and then giving people the opportunity to either watch it on YouTube or listen to it, and now you now you've got two different mediums that you're, you know, so we so.
00:34:29
Jack
We've we've made, we've taken.
00:34:30
Jack
Some steps right, we've got our.
00:34:31
Jack
Lighting issues a little.
00:34:32
Jack
Bit better what we once we get the.
00:34:35
Jack
Wi-Fi situation sorted out. We'll we'll be able to kind of make it look like.
00:34:40
Jack
A A proper.
00:34:42
Jack
Studio, you know.
00:34:43
Jack
Where we're even though we're recording in different country.
00:34:46
Jack
And I think in that case, at that point you and I will have stepped up. Uh, we'll we'll made a step forward like a step up or whatever. We, we'll we'll have taken a big step up because, you know, we'll we'll now be the podcast that you can watch like a show or.
00:35:06
Jack
To like a radio show. So I think that'll really help us.
00:35:11
Jack
I'm I'm not.
00:35:12
Jack
Sure. I don't know if you think if you agree or not, but.
00:35:15
Xochitl
Yeah, I definitely agree. And I'm I'm with it and I think we should make it a New Year's resolution for the podcast this year.
00:35:24
Jack
Right, yes, this is our 20.
00:35:25
Xochitl
Yeah. So the 24 solution for the A-Z English podcast and the Jack and Jill Sub podcast, yeah.
00:35:26
Jack
24 New Year's resolution is.
00:35:38
Jack
Yeah, we've already got a YouTube channel. You know what I mean? So we've got YouTube channel. We're already uploading everything there, but you, you go to the YouTube channel, you can only listen to it. Imagine if you could just go there, see our faces, be that third person in the room and feel like you're you're hanging out with a couple of friends learning English that.
00:35:58
Jack
I mean that that would would.
00:35:59
Jack
Have a lot of appeal, I think.
00:36:01
Jack
And so that's.
00:36:03
Jack
That's where I that's where we want to take.
00:36:05
Jack
This so yeah, yeah.
00:36:08
Xochitl
Listeners let us know what are your suggestions for 2024 to grow our social media page and our podcast. Follow us at A-Z englishpodcast@gmail.com. Oh, sorry. Leave us a comment down below at AZ with podcast.com. Follow us on our WhatsApp group on our WeChat group and e-mail us at A-Z.
00:36:29
Xochitl
Podcast@gmail.com and if you feel so inclined to follow my travel blog on Facebook.
00:36:36
Xochitl
Or on Instagram on both of those places, it's so Lenny travels, which is a mixture of my two names, Emily and social XOCLEMI.
00:36:48
Xochitl
Travels, TRAVELS, and that's on Facebook and Instagram and we will see you guys next time. Bye bye.
00:36:57
Jack
Bye bye.
00:37:09
발표자
OK.
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