If you’re normally a “casual commute” listener of The Money with Katie Show, prepare to park your car and whip out your notebook—today’s episode is a complex deep dive into exactly how you can set yourself up to pay no taxes or penalties in retirement on any of your pre-tax, taxable, and Roth funds, even if you retire in your thirties.

We’ll dig into how much a couple would need to save and invest to retire early and then break down how they can strategically access those funds for the most optimal tax-free outcomes. Remember to caffeinate before this one—your brain cells are about to be workin’ and twerkin’.