Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Millions of Users, Multiple Stakeholders—The Art of Product Owner Navigation | Bernard Agrest

Jul 4, 2025

Bernard Agrest discusses the art of product ownership, emphasizing the importance of truly understanding stakeholder needs while maintaining clear communication. He contrasts effective Product Owners who add value by bridging gaps with the 'Collaborative Hoarder' anti-pattern, which dilutes focus on real outcomes. The conversation also touches on navigating complex organizational pressures, refining strategies for immediate needs versus long-term goals, and the power of community in the Agile space to enhance collaboration and learning.

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ADVICE

Avoid Overloading the Backlog

Avoid adding everything to the backlog just to appear collaborative.
Use Cost of Delay to prioritize and push back professionally on low-value items.

INSIGHT

Pressure Makes PO Say Yes

Product Owners often struggle with saying no due to hierarchical pressures.
Saying yes to everything pressures teams to deliver more, causing dysfunction.

ADVICE

Create PO Space for Team

Help Product Owners create space and time to be present with the team.
Facilitate team agreements to reinforce PO roles and improve productivity.

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Bernard Agrest: Millions of Users, Multiple Stakeholders—The Art of Product Owner Navigation

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.

The Great Product Owner: The Stakeholder Navigator

Bernard describes an exceptional Product Owner who managed a product impacting millions of people while navigating constantly evolving requirements from multiple stakeholders. This Product Owner excelled at understanding each stakeholder's unique needs and communicating effectively with all of them. What made this person truly great was their ability to come to the development team with a clear understanding of both the business case and user needs, having done the hard work of stakeholder management upfront. This Product Owner understood that their role was to be the bridge between complex stakeholder requirements and clear team direction.

The Bad Product Owner: The Collaborative Hoarder

Bernard identifies a dangerous anti-pattern: the Product Owner who adds everything to the backlog under the guise of being "collaborative." While this behavior appears inclusive and team-friendly on the surface, it actually demonstrates that the Product Owner isn't following through on delivering real value. These Product Owners become almost exclusively focused on authority rather than outcomes, making them particularly difficult to coach since they resist guidance. Bernard recommends using Cost of Delay as both a prioritization technique and a tool to help Product Owners understand why certain items shouldn't be added to the backlog at all.

Self-reflection Question: Is your Product Owner truly collaborating by providing clear direction, or are they avoiding difficult prioritization decisions by adding everything to the backlog?

In this segment we refer to the Coach Your Product Owner e-course that we created for everyone who needs to help their Product Owners succeed!

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About Bernard Agrest

Bernard currently leads a major software implementation at University of Wisconsin—Madison Medical School, serving over 10,000 employees. Previously, he built a PMO and led Data and Learning at Teach For America. His journey began redesigning operations for a Veteran Service Organization, where he co-led national initiatives and launched a new alumni program.

You can link with Bernard Agrest on LinkedIn.