Adam talks with Natalie Wynn, ContraPoints, about the challenges of being a YouTube creator, the weirdness of time spent online, Gamergate, and the dark side of the internet. They discuss navigating delicate topics in video essays and the importance of dignity. They also share their love for dreamy ambient music and recommend the album 'Pearl' by Harold Budd and Brian Eno.
Natalie Wynn, aka ContraPoints, discusses the challenges of being a YouTube creator and the dark side of the internet, including online harassment.
Natalie shares her experience of learning from judgment within her own tribe and the importance of not obsessing over online reputation.
The podcast explores the appeal and symbolism of liminal spaces as transitional states that offer both comfort and challenges for personal growth.
The episode addresses the rise of internet harassment, particularly in the context of GamerGate, highlighting the need for a safer internet culture and meaningful dialogue.
Deep dives
Natalie Nguyen's Journey as a YouTube Essayist
Natalie Nguyen, also known as ContraPoints, is an American YouTube essayist who started posting videos in 2008. She gained prominence in 2016 when she began a YouTube channel under the name ContraPoints, focusing on video essays responding to online tolerance, misogyny, and right-wing commentary. Natalie's videos combine comedy and philosophy, often exploring themes of gender, sexuality, and online behavior. She also shares her personal experiences of gender transition in her videos. Natalie's videos are known for their artful construction and meticulous attention to details, with Natalie being responsible for nearly every aspect of her video production, including scriptwriting, lighting, sound design, costume, makeup, art direction, and editing.
Navigating Challenges and Controversy
As a prominent figure on YouTube, Natalie has faced challenges and controversy within the online community. Some disagreements and differences of opinion with her audience have led to heated debates and criticism. Natalie has been cautious with her language, aiming to be persuasive and avoiding labeling individuals as bigots. She acknowledges the need for empathy and understanding when discussing sensitive topics. Despite facing criticism, Natalie's intention in her videos is not to condemn or shun individuals, but to foster conversation and, in some cases, de-radicalize viewers. She believes that considering multiple perspectives and engaging in empathy is important to bring about positive change.
Struggles and Growth in a Public Role
Being a public figure and receiving substantial attention online has had its challenges for Natalie. She describes a period of adjustment, grappling with the sudden fame and the pressure of representing the trans community. Facing backlash and being criticized by her own community forced her to navigate self-doubt and vulnerability. However, over time, Natalie learned from her experiences and developed a Zen-like attitude towards public shaming and online reputation. She realized that not engaging in conflicts or defending herself constantly can often defuse the situation. Natalie also addresses her own moments of self-loathing and vulnerability, using self-deprecating humor as a way to overcome criticism and navigate her own struggles.
The Appeal of Liminal Spaces
The podcast episode explores the concept of liminal spaces and their appeal. Liminal spaces, such as empty airport hallways or hotel lobbies, represent a transitional state between two worlds and offer the possibility for change and transformation. The speaker shares personal experiences of finding comfort and escape in liminal spaces, particularly in overcoming addiction. Liminal spaces are compared to portals or rabbit holes, symbolizing the excitement and potential for exploration and discovery. However, they can also be perceived as sinister due to the unknown. Liminal spaces can be both comforting and challenging, representing an escape from the familiar and an invitation for personal growth.
The Impact of GamerGate and Internet Harassment
The podcast episode delves into the GamerGate controversy, which began as an alleged call for ethics in game journalism but evolved into a harassment campaign primarily targeting women in nerd culture. The speaker describes GamerGate as a turning point that marked the decline of the internet as an inclusive and supportive space. The episode highlights the scale and intensity of internet harassment, discussing the rise of subcultures like incels and the toxic nature of online interactions. The conversation also touches on the broader topic of cancel culture and the challenges of engaging in meaningful dialogue in today's divisive online environments. The negative impact of harassment on mental health and the need to create a safer internet culture are also emphasized.
The Psychological Risks of Self-Obsession and Social Media
The podcast touches on the psychological risks associated with self-obsession, particularly in the context of social media. The speaker reflects on the increased self-awareness and focus on personal image brought about by platforms like TikTok and the constant exposure to feedback and comments. The intense scrutiny of one's own image can lead to dark spirals of self-hatred, especially for younger individuals. The discussion emphasizes the importance of resisting excessive self-obsession, maintaining a humble self-image, and recognizing the potential psychological risks associated with digital technology and social media engagement.
Seeking Order in Chess and Dreamy Ambient Music
The podcast briefly touches on the speaker's personal interests in chess and dreamy ambient music. Chess is described as a refreshing escape from the chaotic and toxic nature of social media, offering order, predictability, and a different mode of thinking. The allure of dreamy ambient music, particularly the works of Claude Debussy, is also mentioned. The speaker recommends starting with Debussy's piano music, which captures a sense of ambient tranquility and represents a liminal space within the realm of music. Additionally, the conversation briefly mentions Brian Eno, a pioneer of ambient music, and recommends exploring his collaborations with Harold Budd, specifically the album 'The Pearl'.
Adam talks with American YouTube video essayist Natalie Wynn a.k.a ContraPoints about the practical challenges of being a YouTube creator, the weirdness of time spent on the internet, the therapeutic value of liminal spaces, Gamergate, on line harassment and the dark side of the internet, what Natalie learned from being judged by her own tribe, why she regretted her involvement with the Witch Trials of JK Rowling podcast, and how to avoid becoming obsessed with protecting your reputation on line.
This conversation was recorded remotely on October 5th, 2023
Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and conversation editing.
