Oh boy, do we have a spicy one tonight. For the first time ever, we have the "Agent of Chaos" Eric Curtis, the "Sexiest Voice in Podcasting" Jack, and the plane-making legend Konrad Sauer all in the same episode at the same time.

We are revisiting one of our most controversial early topics—Art vs. Craft—but this time, we’re tearing down the binary. Konrad argues that we missed a crucial piece of the puzzle: Design. What follows is a philosophical free-for-all about the hats we wear as makers, the tension between feeling and engineering, and why a 1.7-million-year-old hand axe proves we’ve always been obsessed with "getting our faces sat on" (metaphorically... mostly).

From the empathy required to build a chair to the enduring legacy of cave paintings, we break down what it actually means to make "objects of desire" and why the labels might not matter as much as the joy of making.

To watch the YOUTUBE VIDEO of this episode and the irreverent & somewhat unpredictable AFTERSHOW, subscribe to our Patreon:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467) ⁠⁠⁠http://patreon.com/user?u=91688467

SECURING AMERICA WITH FRANK GAFFNEY - AUGUST 23RD, 2025