This ancient Chinese military treatise by the mysterious Sun Tzu is one of the most influential books ever written. Internet shock-merchants and tech oligarchs swear by it, Dominic Cummings is a fan and it has inspired military leaders for 2,500 years. Why has ‘The Art Of War’ lasted – and is there more to it than a manual for the manosphere and a crib-sheet for vendors of management studies snake oil?

Jamie Q Roberts is a Lecturer in Politics and International Relations at the University of Sydney (and he also runs Wollemi Art Farm in the Australian Bush). He talks to Andrew Harrison about ‘The Art Of War’s relevance today, its surprising spiritual dimension, and whether Trump is an unwitting apostle of Sun Tzu.

• Read Jamie’s further exploration of ‘The Art Of War’ on The Conversation.

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Written and presented by Andrew Harrison. Audio production by Simon Williams. Produced by Liam Tait. Music by Kenny Dickinson. Art by Jim Parrett. Managing Editor Jacob Jarvis. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. THE BUNKER is a Podmasters Production

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45. Get Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable