Nan Yu is the head of product at Linear, one of the most beloved and fastest-growing B2B SaaS products out there today, and the gold standard for high-performing tech teams. In our conversation, we discuss:

• Why speed and quality aren’t actually at odds

• Linear’s unique approach to product development

• Nan’s systematic approach to creativity

• Linear’s philosophy on deadlines

• The “double triangle” framework for product management

• Nan’s approach to landing his dream product roles

• Much more

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Brought to you by:

• Sinch—Build messaging, email, and calling into your product

• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want

• Wix Studio—The web creation platform built for agencies

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Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/linears-secret-to-building-beloved-b2b-products-nan-yu

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Where to find Nan Yu:

• X: https://x.com/thenanyu

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thenanyu/

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Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

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In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Introduction to Nan Yu and Linear

(04:54) Survey insights: Linear vs. Jira

(07:51) The speed vs. quality myth

(09:24) Building and iterating quickly

(15:31) Avoiding bloat in enterprise software

(23:57) Understanding user needs deeply

(30:09) How to approach customer calls

(34:10) Creating strong emotional hooks

(40:31) Managing the product backlog

(44:46) Systemizing creativity

(48:16) Demo: Saving drafts in Linear

(51:38) Breaking constraints and building at extremes

(54:15) Adopting new tools

(58:22) The “double triangle” framework for product management

(01:04:23) Effective job-hunting strategies for PMs

(01:09:15) Thoughts on deadlines

(01:14:15) Lightning round

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Referenced:

• Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

• Linear: https://linear.app/

• Patrick Collison’s post on X: https://x.com/patrickc/status/1869422495985750459

• Magnus Carlsen on X: https://x.com/magnuscarlsen

• Hikaru Nakamura on X: https://x.com/gmhikaru

• Geoffrey Moore on finding your beachhead, crossing the chasm, and dominating a market: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead

• Customer Request feature on Linear: https://linear.app/customer-requests

• Everlane: https://www.everlane.com/

• Schlep Blindness: https://paulgraham.com/schlep.html

• Linear’s triage tool: https://linear.app/docs/triage

• Patrick Collison’s post about mental models on X: https://x.com/patrickc/status/1443215022029619200

• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach

• Unpacking Amazon’s unique ways of working | Bill Carr (author of Working Backwards): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unpacking-amazons-unique-ways-of

• Mode: https://mode.com/

• The Diplomat on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288983

• Sakura Micron pens: https://www.amazon.com/SAKURA-PIGMA-MICRON-ESSENTIAL-COLORS/dp/B07VJFXT3C/

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Recommended books:

• Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers: https://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Chasm-3rd-Disruptive-Mainstream/dp/0062292986

• The Design of Everyday Things: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654/

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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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