Dr Grace Kite, a business economist and founder of Magic Numbers and Magic Works, joins Omar Oakes to discuss the importance of independence in media consulting, trends in effectiveness, Cannes Lions and what it takes to be a successful business founder.

Kite is one of the industry's most respected voices on what makes advertising effective and has just sold Magic Numbers to US-based tech consultancy Analytic Partners.

She says: "My experience as an independent is that the client themselves will tell you more stuff and they'll treat you more as a partner because you're not trying to sell them the next media campaign, you're not trying to steer them towards your media partners who can get you a better deal and you can get more commission on them."

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Thanks to our production partners Trisonic for editing this episode.

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